No Start...No Go...

[kayaker]

Hi,

My 97 Max IV (Kohler Command 20) has had starting issues.

I turn the key...Engine goes "Clunk."

I have jumped the battery,junked the battery and bought new; replaced the solenoid, rebuilt the starter...
Saturday Morning, same issue.

I turn the key and I get about half a turn of the crankshaft and stopped.
It isn't the battery...It seems to have lots of power to go "Clunk!"

Saturday, after trying to jump to the battery...for kicks I jumped to the positive post on the (brand new) solenoid. Same Clunk. Frustrated I turned the key on and off in rapid fashion...surprise after the 6th or 8th 'clunk' it turned over and started.

After the engine has run for a bit, I can turn it off and it starts fine from there on. But this is the second time I have missed a morning hunt cause my blasted engine won't turn over.

The automotive electrician is willing to go over it all again, but I'm wondering if it is electrical after all?

I mentioned I was going to query the Forum for ideas...he said to ask if there was any possibility of the cylinders being hydrauliced?? I'm a farmer, reasonably mechanical...I have no clue what he meant!

I've got a great machine...when it starts! I got it to hunt out of...I'm missing out!

I would greatly appreciate any ideas on where to go with this starting issue.

PS...is there any way to adapt a flywheel hand pull starter?

Pura vida!

[LarryW]

What he means by "cylinders being hydrauliced" is full of fluid of some sort making the engine seize. Gas/oil/water.. Fluids don't flow as fast as air making it very hard for the engine to turn over if it even would. If when it did start, it ran fine no smoking or anything unusual then thats not it. Could it be a bad ground somewhere? Try jumpers from batt. neg to engine block somewhere. I would say maybe switch but you by passed that when you put the positive on the solenoid. It is puzzling having everything new/rebuilt. Hopefully you didn't buy a new defective piece.
Larry

[Beeman]

I'd remove the spark plug and try turning the engine over (by electric start and by hand). If it still gets stuck... you might have a mechanical issue.

I somehow got a chunk of metal inside one of my cylinders which basically caused the same symtoms... only turning over a couple times in a long span of key turns. Mind you it ran pretty rough when it did get going.

[kayaker]

Thanks Guys...

I figured that was what he meant with the hydraulic issue.

No smoke, purred like a kitten after it started. Went quickly to idle and
ran very smoothly the rest of the day.

Thanks for the input.

Anyone else?

is it possible to hand or compression start the Kohler?

[6X6]

I think you ruled out most electrical issues, but not ground. Jump your battery Negative to the engine block, just find clean unpainted metal, and see if it starts cold with the key (No positive jumper) if it starts right up, then find the bad ground connection between battery and engine, if not...
Bad winding in starter, not enough oomph, warm engine cranks easier so re-starts easier. (Not sure best way to test without disasembly and Voltmeter)
Timing too advanced. I mention, but doubt it, since it runs fine at idle.
(Take plug wires off, if it suddenly cranks quick, it is a good possibility)
Starter motor Positive wire bad. (Jump to starter motor +, not solenoid and see if it cranks fine)

[AussieMax]

Kohler won't start

Hello there,
From memory the Kohler engines have a decompression mechanism on the camshaft to reduce compression during start up. It is a spring loaded arm that holds the inlet valves slightly open until it starts. These can give trouble and can cause the starter to stall when the engine hits compression while winding over, once they start they are fine. I'm not sure of the best way to check if this is the problem with out splitting the crankcase and having a look at the camshaft. I guess you could check with a Kohler dealer.

[LarryW]

Well if it is a decompresser issue as AussieMax explained then to help narrow it down would be take the plug out and see if it spins the motor over.

[kayaker]

Anyone subscribe to the theory that fuel leaks out of the carb and fills the cylinder?

After considering this, the Max does this after trailering in over a long bumpy road. Is it possible that a stuck float or something of the sort allows fuel to block compression?

I would love to test this theory by pulling the spark plug and seeing if fuel squirts out...

Fortunately, or unfortunately I cannot recreate the problem! It starts time after time today! Obviously it is secretly planning the next untimely breakdown for the opening morning of hunting season on Oct 11!

Should I rebuild the carb simply cause I can???!!!

[mad_max_500cc]

i have a kohler max2 that has almost the same sounding issue from time to time the actual engine ground cable that goes from the frame in the back to the engine mount bar had poor connection all it took was loosening the motor mount nut and bolt and retightning it and presto it starts every time i also know that due to the high draw of a kohler starter if the battery is week at all(or even a low charge) it wont crank and just click!

[kayaker]

i have a kohler max2... it wont crank and just click!

Make no mistake...It doesn't click, it CLUNKS! It clunks with the battery, it clunks when jumped with my DuraMax Diesel.

I'm wondering why there are two fuel lines to my Max IV, 1 to the fuel pump, one with a squeeze ball pump. Is it possible to get siphoning into the cylinder?

I may try a fuel shutoff valve, and rebuild the carb while I'm at it.
Good Idea?

[philipatmaxfour]

97 Max Iv Kohler Command 20

[QUOTE=kayaker;23474

I'm wondering why there are two fuel lines to my Max IV, 1 to the fuel pump, one with a squeeze ball pump.

Did somebody add the line with the squeeze ball? My 2003 max iv with a kohler 25 does not have a line with a squeeze ball. Can any of the Max experts explain ?

[LarryW]

If the fuel was the case it would miss, chug-a-lug untile it clears out and smoke alot of black smoke at first start up. It wouldnt start at all if it was enough gas to hydro-lock the engine. You would also most likely have alot of gas in the oil.

[6X6]

Yes, why not clean out the carb? Always a good idea if your not sure it's clean. I would still trace each wire between battery and starter motor (+) AND between Battery and ENGINE BLOCK (-) The battery to frame may be fine, but since the engine is probably on rubber mounts, there is a groun strap and if that is a little loose, your motor will stall the second it loads and tries to draw too much current. (It would Clunk, but then not crank, and you may hear the solenoid rapidly ticking, or not, depending on where the loose connection is). Good luck making opening day!

[Beeman]

Just a thought.. you could put an amp clamp on the line to the starter. If during the "Clunking" you get a huge increase in current than something is blocking the engine from turning. If you get nothing during the clunking than its something electrical.