Max IV steering issue

[Dave Box]

Hello Folks,
I have just purchased a used Max IV, everything worked fine for a day and then I started it up and had no steering. The machine runs forward and reverse but when you pull on any handle it seems to want to turn but then just stops (the engine does not stall).
I consider myself pretty handy with a wrench but I don't know anything about this transmission other than the theory of braking one output to make it turn.
I thought about checking the fluid level but I need to find a square wrench as the plugs are in very tight. As a suplimental question, does the engine have to be removed to work on the transmission? I don't have a problem doing that but I don't want to be making extra work if it is not neccessary.
Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions.
Dave

[racerone3]

Dave, before you tear into anything. make sure you are pushing hard forward on one stick, and pulling hard back on the other while giving it some throttle. a lot of times, new owners will rely on the springs to hold the lateral forward, and sometimes more force is needed than the springs can exert.

you will either need to remove the engine and it's stand, or be at minimum quadruple jointed to do much of anything on the trans in a IV

[Dave Box]

Racerone3, Thank you for your prompt reply. I think that I (sort of ) mastered driving the beast as I had no issues on the first day, In fact I was really having some fun with it. Sadly I think that something has let go which has sucked all the thrill out of my new toy. Still if the engine has to come out I can do that but I may end up staring at the T20 thinking "What next". I have just found the T20 manual on this forum so I will go and have a beer and a read.

Dave

[Dave Box]

OK folks while waiting for a reply here is what I did. I took the engine out and inspected the T20. I wanted to check that there was fluid in there so I removed the lower plug and a great deal of fluid came out so I guess the previous owner overfilled it.
With the Max in forward gear I was able to push it and found that only the right hand tiller would stop the cart. In reverse if I pulled back on the right tiller (to release the brake) I could push the car, the left tiller again having no effect. I removed the steering links from the diamond shaped plates so I could operate them individually and found that,
A) the right plate when in any gear would rotate the clutch when I pushed the car
B) with the right plate in neutral the left plate would not rotate the clutch in any position.
From this I deduce that the left side of the T20 is stuck in neutral and this would tie in with my driving experience.
I removed both plates hoping to see a broken pin or similar but alas everything looks good.

So is there anything I can do to make this thing work? Do I need to buy a refurbished transmission? If so what should a good price be and do you have any recommendations?

Thanks
Dave

[micmac]

Dave

Before going any deeper. With the diamond shifter out on the left side try and shift the left side manually with a large screwdriver. You will see the shift groove that the pin rests in. If your able to shift the collar and there is no braking on that side then it's probably an deeper internal issue. The good news is there arent many issues that can't easily be fixed through the info and people on this site. Hang in there and we'll get you up and running again

Mike

[amphibious drew]

Dave,

Hang in there, the t-20's are simple to fix no matter what the issue (and there is only a few possible issues). I even work on my own t-20's and I'm a salesman not a mechanic. If it ends up being more than diamond pin, maybe someone here can stop by and help you when you crack her open for the first time. You may want to post where you live and ask if anyones close. I drove to member Jpswift's place to crack my first one open, and it really was quite simple. Good luck on it.

[Dave Box]

Well here is the latest and I think it is good news (compared to the T20 being shot). I have just noticed that when I push the ca,r on the right side the wheels turn the chains which turn the output shaft on the transmission. On the left side the long chains turn but the back axle (on the left) does not turn the chain which goes to the output shaft. So I am guessing that some part of the left rear axle has snapped.

Does anyone have any idea how this all works? Is it possible that it is as simple as tightening it up? Or do I have to remove the assembly and get it welded? If so is there a proceedure?

As always thanks in advance for any help.

Dave

[Mike]

Most likely your sprocket tube is just not connected to your axle. Depending on what year your Max is, it can be held on different ways but it probably has a bolt going through the sprocket tube and the axle. See if it is missing or broken. Also, for removal, if you will look in the how-to section of the site, there is a full article and a video showing you how to remove an axle from a Max II. The process is basically the same for your Max IV.

[Dave Box]

Mike, thank you. After my last post I found the video so I thought I would give it a go. I soon discovered that the spocket has busted off the tube and turns freely. The bolt is present. So I need to get the axle out to replace the sproket tube. I got the outer collar off as directed by the video but I cannot move the inner collar, I have been wailing on it with a large srewdriver and a hammer but it does not budge. The video states that the collar might loosen in either direction and the outer on was as normal ie lefty loosey. Now I am stuck. Are ther any tips on how to loosen the inner collar?

Thanks
Dave

[Mike]

I've had luck using a large crow bar as a punch. Set the corner of the crow bar on the locking collar like you are doing with your screw driver and give it a few good hits with a hammer. You can also see if you can get a pipe wrench or a large pair of pliers on the collar and have someone try to turn it while you use the punch. Finally, you can try some heat on it or just cut it off. Just be careful not to cut into your axle. If you get the cut close to going through the collar, then hit it with a punch again to crack it all the way.

Good luck.

[Dave Box]

Thanks Mike. I watched the video again and realized that I has misunderstood. I thought the author said it could come off one of two ways but what he said was it could come off either way. So I got a bigger hammer and whacked it to the right and off it span. (I thought it was threaded but obviously it is a bayonet type fixing. So I got the chains off but the axle will not come out. This is explained in the video so I will have to take the bearing assembly off the tub. Sadly I ran out of time tonight. I am now reasonably confident that I will have it all done tomorrow night.

Sometime I will want to adjust the brake bands. Do you know what the thickness of the spacer tool is? I know I can buy it but to be frank $25 for two pieces of stock with a notch seems a little ambitious.

Many thanks
Dave

[Mike]

To adjust the T20, you don't have to use the tool. I have always done it without one.

[Dave Box]

Success!

Thanks Mike and everyone else who helped, the broken sprocket is out. This is one of those occasions when I can honestly say I would have been screwed without this forum. 100_1484.jpg100_1488.jpg
Anyway here is a picture of the offending part (like you have never seen a busted sprocket) and my youngest having fun before it let go.

Now if I may impose on your kindness again , two more questions.
When I removed the level plug on the T20 a great deal of black liquid poured out. I am guessing that it was overfilled, possibly with differential oil. Is there a good way to drain it? I am thinking a turkey baster with some plastic pipe. I suppose that I am so close now (with one axle out) maybe I should pull the unit out and tip it over to drain the fluid. What do you think?

Finally I looked at the brake levers with a view to adjusting them however it seems like there are tabs behind the bolts (in the U channels which are designed to stop the bolts rotating, so I am confused as to how to adjust the bolts. I read somewhere to grind a 9/16ths socket ultra thin but a regular socket gets in the U channel but if those tabs are designed to stop the bolts turning then how do you adjust them?

As always, many thanks for your kind help.
Dave

[Mike]

Well at least that sprocket is an easy fix. You can weld it back on or have someone weld it. It looks like it was only welded on the outside anyway. You could run a bead on the inside as well this time.

For the T20, if you will search the site, this topic has been discussed a good bit. The most common ways are with a vacuum pump or by raising the front of the Max as high as you can get it using a winch, forklift, bobcat, two body builders, whatever works for you. You can also just do as you mentioned and unbolt it and tip it over. It may be gear oil but it could also just be dirty ATF that hasn't been changed in years. It's surprising how dirty that can get. Just try to get as much of it out as you can.

For the lateral adjustment, don't do that at the T20. If the transmission is within spec and seems to be working properly and you just want to move the laterals so that they are even with each other, do that right at the bottom of the laterals themselves. There is some adjustment there.

[Dave Box]

It is all back together so thanks to all involved. I managed to find a syphon with a bulb so I was able to suck all the old fluid out and replace it. The sprocket is welded and back in, even though I spent an inordinate amount of time sanding down the axle. With the engine out I was able to lube all the chains and sprocket and I finally got it to move tonight. I think that I need to adjust the throttle links as I only appear to have half speed but rain has stopped play for now so that is a job for tomorrow.
Once again many thanks for all the help

Dave