China AATV

[pepper]

In my experience, I find that a lot of this stuff is built to be sold and that means cheap, not so much actually built to last. Looks good on the website showroom, but in reality needs to be babied and then thrown away and replaced every couple years.

The links you gave us show that this same factory builds toy R/C cars and robotic vacuum cleaners. As suggested by others- go ahead and try to order parts or tracks for the 8x8, or order 10 RC cars or robot vaccuum cleaners and see how many fail to work fresh out of the box. Also see if you get slapped with a 100% import duty by Canada Customs before getting in too deep.

Let us know how amazing a deal you get/how badly you get screwed so we can benefit from your experience.

I gotta say i am amused by your defensive response .
what makes you think that a design that has been floated about for over 30 years cant be duplicated LOL! they always used to say the same thing about japanese quality which had no choice but to improve just like chinese are now.

Look at how basic a design an argo is and try to tell me it cant be duplicated with the same quality of materials

You do realize we are living in 2008 right? even if china was 20 years behind the times it would still be on par with such a simple device. Argo is not exactly care free and they have quality control and longevity issues but do you think that those are one off problems or just plain old inferior Canadian workmanship?



Where do you get your import duty info from because that is a total fabrication on your part , you have proven yourself a person with no understanding of this matter and more then willing to make up stories to suit yourself.



when it comes to importing the vehicle the import duty on the item is 6% with applicable taxes of course. if you are to order parts the duty is 4.5% plus taxes.

It does not fall under RIV because it is considered a work vehicle and it seems transport Canada is hands off on this type of vehicle also ( no problem with its importation) so importing them does not seem to be an issue . It seems that this type of specialized vehicle is not a problem to import.
I will be doing more legwork to confirm everything but everything thus far looks positive. heck i have had several folks contact me from other boards i am on and express interest allready in regards to this.



Call the govt agencies your self for import info if you dont want to believe









wouldnt it be better to have more competition for these vehicles so they can get out of the dark ages and come out with a truly revoloutionary amphib for a better price? Unless of course you are an Argo dealer

[salamander]

Add me to the skeptic until convinced otherwise list.

I think this is a gamble that i might be willing to take. the tracks alone are tempting.

In my experience, I find that a lot of this stuff is built to be sold and that means cheap, not so much actually built to last. Looks good on the website showroom, but in reality needs to be babied and then thrown away and replaced every couple years.

The links you gave us show that this same factory builds toy R/C cars and robotic vacuum cleaners. As suggested by others- go ahead and try to order parts or tracks for the 8x8, or order 10 RC cars or robot vaccuum cleaners and see how many fail to work fresh out of the box. Also see if you get slapped with a 100% import duty by Canada Customs before getting in too deep.

Let us know how amazing a deal you get/how badly you get screwed so we can benefit from your experience.

[pepper]

I contacted the sales manager directly.

[mightymaxIV]

well i just got the price for the 8x8 with the 52 hp engine 25 inch tires and the CVT - with 3spd+rev trans and it was $7800 CIF to vancouver (That Cost ,Insurance & Freight) and tracks for the 8x8 are 200 dollars a set . judgeing by all the reports on China products gettiing better and better to meet world standards . this particular company is ISO 9001.2000 and interestingly thier products have passed the EU product safety certification,EEC, CE and EPA/DOT certs. (some of thier items are rebadged).

I think this is a gamble that i might be willing to take. the tracks alone are tempting.

Pepper what do you have to do to get these guys to give you a quote. Man for 200 dollars you could buy some tracks and adapt them to anything. I sent them an e-mail and got a bunch of nonsence back.

[pepper]

well i just got the price for the 8x8 with the 52 hp engine 25 inch tires and the CVT - with 3spd+rev trans and it was $7800 CIF to vancouver (That Cost ,Insurance & Freight) and tracks for the 8x8 are 200 dollars a set . judgeing by all the reports on China products gettiing better and better to meet world standards . this particular company is ISO 9001.2000 and interestingly thier products have passed the EU product safety certification,EEC, CE and EPA/DOT certs. (some of thier items are rebadged).

I think this is a gamble that i might be willing to take. the tracks alone are tempting.

[artist1018]

I think, once a network of dealerships is established, and them having a good inventory of parts, Argo will have possible competition.
I own a Chevy Aveo,(actually, my 3rd). We bought 2 in '04, when the $2.00/gallon "scare" began. They are built by Daiwoo (sp?) I traded in one of the 04 models for an 08 for my wife. The reason for this statement is: GM dealers are sales & service approved due to the "bow tie" on the car. If you open the drivers door, you'll see a manufacture plate. Now, that being said, perhaps ODG, the maker of Argo, will do one of two things: 1. offer these machines thru dealers along side Argos or: 2. Lower their prices & compete for our business!?!

That's my 2 cents

[boncrshr]

My way of thinking is that for that amount of money you could build something that would outperform and outlast any Chinese ATV...plus, parts would be easily available, often from local bearing houses. For instance, I see nice Max IV's going for well within that price range. New chains and bearings would make a machine in this price range very reliable. If you wanted speed you could easily modify the motor/gear ratio in the Max. The point is that all of the components in the Max are time tested and easily available.

Why buy something that you know from the outset is of questionable quality and that you know you are going to have to work on to make it reliable?? And when it breaks, finding parts easily is impossible. I understand people here buying a brand new machine that they don't want to have to work on, but for those of us who want to save a few bucks or enjoy working on machines, used ones are a good value...so this machine is new and seems like a good value, but I guarantee you'll be working on it. Why not buy a good used Max IV since you'll be wrenching anyways?

My frustration with Chinese products is based on personal experience in the field with premature failures. No more if I can help it. I cannot think of even ONE product where anyone says "Man, you just gotta admire that Chinese craftsmanship!". In fact, one of my hunting buddies bought him and his son one of those Chinese quads....junk.

Just my two cents, and I am not trying to be difficult or discouraging. Just trying to show there are a lot of other options within that price range.

[6X6]

Well, I'm certainly not trying to fear monger. There are legitimate concers. Mogman (on this forum) bought a 07 ATV, supposed to be a very well made ATV, made in China, for his son. But these are issues we saw. Thinks did break and things did work loose on the first day of riding without crashes. Now there WAS a recall on the rear brake caliper bracket which broke within 2 hours of use (Fortunately he had the machine governed to a 10MPH limit), it just took over seven months for the parts to arrive . It is NOT always necessary to do a complete teardown, but you don't find out you should have untill its probably too late! Jimmy (Mogman) had spoken with another father/son who had 2 China made quads, again, not the E-Bay dirt cheapies, but higher end. They had problems from the start, but did a teardown, clean and put together with threadlock and had a lot of fun with them since! I can't speak for every brand out there, and I do buy products made in China, we all do! Every day! China isn't bad, there are just certain things I go with certain brands, and dismissing any concerns as "Fear Mongering" is no better than taking a "Never buy any item made in China" attitude. These are my experiences, good AND bad, and my 2 Cents. As i said in my last post "If anyone does buy one, I bet a lot of guys here will be waiting for a review!" I'm one of them!

[pepper]

well china qualty is better now then it was even 10 years ago. in fact there are far more chinese product people purchase then they realize. as far as quality of steel well it is mostly up to EU standards now and they are in fact purchaseing like crazy from Canada and the australians it seems. Quality wise the companies are haveing to create better quality stuff in order to compete. (this particular companie allready sells in EU.


This is where it pays off to know who they copied from and what tooling they use. For instance Lifan purchased all the tooling from honda in fact the parts interchange and the quality seem on par. you have to remember that the design is not a new design but it is hondas. Thats why i said purchaseing one of these machine to see.
If the engine is a good quality copy and the materials are up to snuff then it is a good deal. (trying to get more info on specs)

Saying always do a compleate teardown beacuse it is made in china is silly and there are good and bad QC from every manufacturer of anything (did you know that alot of your favourite NA brands are rebadged chinese products?).
the track record for Argo B&S etc have all been suspect at times.

These machines are very basic in design ,on paper this is what I wish argo would have put out in the first place and had a price closer to this.
The same thing being said about chinese products is the same fear mongering that was used in respect to Japanese products.

I have used and do use many chinese built industrial engines and i can say they have been as good as the old hondas they have replaced (direct bolt ins)

so who is gonna be a Guinea Pig. If i can square things i will be very tempted .

[6X6]

Argo Knock-off

Hmmm. I've never owned an Argo myself, but I think it may be "loosely" based on an argo, (Or maybe they took an argo body and used it to make the mold?). I personally would not by an ATV or AATV made in China. I steer clear of as much "Made in China" as possible. I will NEVER knowingly add another China tool to my toolbox UNLESS I see a drastic improvement in quality. (I basically punched an aluminum 115hp outboard motor block full force when a "Made in China" ratchet failed. Boncrshr, I feel your pain) The ATV's and other Powersports/power equipment CAN work well but you NEED to do 2 things first.
1- ALWAYS DO A COMPLETE TEARDOWN! THIS IS FIRST, BEFORE THE FIRST RUN, BEFORE THE TEST RUN, BEFORE YOU START IT UP ONE TIME! Take the engine apart and clean out any leftovers from machining and casting. This should be done on ANY engine, but is especially critical on engines out of China as they seem to miss a lot of material on a regular basis. Fresh, clean oil, fresh clean coolant (If aplicable). Check that all wiring is routed out of harms way, same with hoses and fuel line. And take out EVERY metal Fastener threaded into metal, THREADLOCK and torque to MFG. specs if available, or use common sense and experience, it will be as good or better than the original assembly job.
2- AFTER EVERY RUN, go over EVERYTHING that could possibly be stressed, even if it looks WAY OVERBUILT! You need to understand that the metals used are usually (Not always, but usually) not of the same grade as used by US, European and other more experienced and established manufacturers. Look for any stressing, distortion and cracking, and REPLACE IMMEDIATELY! Check oil for metal shards from incorrect tollerances, same in tranny, and check for ANY loose fasteners, even though you threadlocked! I see a lot of problems with these chinese ATV's (no experience on the AATV) and most are a failure, due to another failure and/or (a) part(s) coming loose. This can lead to breakdown, damage, and quite possibly dangerous situations such as loss of controll, steering or brakes.

SO, is the savings worth it? If you have a repair shop do all your maintenance, almost definitely NO, you will eat up all your savings MUCH quicker than you think. If you do all your maintenance, and do it regularly, AND HAVE THE TIME, then Maybe? I have no way of knowing how much time you will spend, and if/how much you will need to spend in parts over the name brands.

-BUT BEFORE CONSIDERING BUYING THIS, SEE IF YOU CAN ORDER PARTS!! Don't ask the company if parts are available, they will say "Yes" guaranteed, but if a local delear, request to see the parts inventory, and don't buy if you can't see they have Machine specific parts in stock. If online, I would actually order a couple small but specific parts, and see if it takes a week or 7 months (Yes, a friend waited OVER 7 moths for parts defective from day one, and they finally took them off another showroom atv) I think it's better to pay $20-$30 dollars and figure out you will wait forever for parts than to pay $7,000 and then find out!

I won't say don't buy, It looks nice with a 3cyl 56hp engine. 60Km/h is 37MPH, and seems slow for that powerfull an engine with a 3 speed + CVT, guess high is still gear quite low. Still more than fast enough for trails. If anyone does buy one, I bet a lot of guys here will be waiting for a review!

[pepper]

inline 3cyl fi 52 HP water boxer- cvt + 3 forward and reverse . looks like tracks are available also . I have gotten some other info that i have not posted but spec wise it looks good . I believe its the same one the Chinese Govt is useing but i will have to do a bit more checking on that.

for $7000 it sure is interesting . I am gonna start getting some more info on this and see about importing one to see if it is worth while ?

[Cougar]

Me too, that 52hp sounds good. Cougar

[pepper]

this is the response I have gotten from them.



Please look through the following information for your inquiry:

Amphibious ATV 6x6:
USD6500 Fob Ningbo per piece under 10PCS
USD6000 Fob Ningbo per piece above 10PCS

Amphibious ATV 8x8:
USD7500 Fob Ningbo per piece under 10PCS
USD7000 Fob Ningbo per piece above 10PCS

Colour Available: black, green, blue, yellow, camouflage


Quality Guarantee:
Main parts: 2 years
Spare parts: 3% free

Delivery Time: 15 days.

,


I gotta say that I am curious.

[boncrshr]

I steer clear of anything made in China if I have a choice. Take Academy gear for example, if it gets you through one season you are doing good. Plus, who wants to go into the great Capitalist outdoors with Communist gear??

[bcsteve]

Land speed of 60 km/h!