Anyone ever pull the driven clutch on a Coot?

[allwheeldrive]

It kills me that I have posted maybe 3 threads based on 1 problem over the past few months.

I really need to figure out why Cootworld won’t let me register, granted there is little activity there.

Does anyone have any experience taking the Driven Clutch off of a coot?
I swear for how “well built” this machine is, it sure isn’t well designed to work on. Both the engine and transmission CVT clutches cannot be removed without pulling out their corresponding attachments. IE When you unbolt the CVT clutches they slide on the shafts until they hit the tub. They both only need maybe ½” more room to slide off, but alas the designers all those years ago figured ½” more leg room justified making it impossible to do routine disassembly.

Call me frustrated, but I beg anyone who has removed the transmissions clutch any tips? It appears I will have to remove the entire sheet metal shroud, bearing assembly for the sprocket, chain, brake support, and steering support just to get at the front of the transmission. Seeing as it takes no less than 30min with two spanners and bloody knuckles cranking on stuff with 6 degrees of room completely out of site to do one of the many bolts holding the shroud together I’d love to know if my whining is justified.

If not just ignore my venting.

[racerone3]

sadly, there is no easy way. I would say you are justified in venting, there is nothing easy to work on on these machines. Pretty sure cootworld side is shut down.

[allwheeldrive]

Thanks lol, The Coot is a rugged and structurally sound design, but every time I find a bolt / nut so close to a wall that I can't get a driver seated on it, or every time I end up blocking my own line of sight with my arm crammed into what ever crevice filled with sharp rusted sheet metal makes me question if it be faster to just tear the entire machine down each time to fix something than try and work around all the other components in the way.

I guess that's just the price to pay for being amphibious, Some times when I see my neighbors hopping in their contemporary SxS and clocking up hundreds of hours of maintains free use I've got to wounder if we AATV owners are just masochist

[North Country Tough]

We are a breed unto our own with very understanding wife's and girlfriends possibly I should have said OR,I have never had the challenge of working on a Coot they look neat and I would like to own one but life is too short,none are totally easy try working on a well lubed Argo that works daily and has a ton of hrs on it,forget them puny little blue gloves to keep your hands clean ya need the ones that them cow punchers use up to your shoulders,I found sometimes the best method is a total tear-down and refurb cross all the T,s and dot all the I,s clean inspect replace groundup and have some fun and hope that you didnt forget to tighten everything down.NCT

[Noel Woods]

Pull the trans assembly, place it in a deep freeze, pull it out the next day, then use a heat gun to warm up the clutch, it should slide off that way. I've done mine twice and it works, oh yes, all that other stuff has got to be pulled first, and wear some mechanics gloves to save the knuckles.

I modified the shroud to a deal held down by two sheet metal screws. I have actually thought about lengthening the front tub to allow more access, a guy on Coot world did that.

[john swenson]

i don't own a coot....but if i did and planned on using it for a long time, i'm with noel. i would modify what ever i could to make repairs as easily as possibly. it may not stay ''original'', but it would be more enjoyable to work on. johnboy va.

[Noel Woods]

Here are the results of a stretched Coot:

http://cootworld.freeforums.org/download/file.php?id=189

[allwheeldrive]

Woh that’s weird how similar their set up is to mine


upload pic

, even got the little exhaust stack.

I have been implementing modifications every step of the way to make it easier to take apart the 2nd…3rd..4th time now. Like I’ve got handle nuts on the underside of the transmission since they are practically impossible to reach . Allen bolts in places I can’t fit a wrench, and wing nuts on places that don’t have to be too tight I also can’t cram a wrench or socket driver (I’ve got strong hands lol)

I won’t have any trouble sliding the CVT driven clutch off, it slides with no difficulty on the shaft. I just can’t get it to the end because it bangs into the tub. Even with the 2 transmission bolts removed. Now just the rotating bearing housing at the front of the transmission is holding it in place, but I can’t get a wrench in there let alone even see where the other bolt and nut is hidden under the engine shroud. Of course the engine shroud is held in place with a ton of 5/16 bolts who ALL have nuts on the underside that are inaccessible. This machine could really have been made 10x better if there was more threaded plate steel / press nuts that you didn’t have to keep from rotating.

[Noel Woods]

Yep. I got the feel that the folks at the Coot factory were only concerned about sending the product down the production line. The last time I pulled my drivetrain I made everything as accessible as possible. Still there was little room for the engine upgrade to a 18hp B&S, but I squeezed it in there. I really think a 10hp engine is fine for such a low geared machine, I switched out the output gear to an even lower unit so mine is like a tractor now. If I switch motors I will put a one lunger in to free up some space. Was also thinking about switching out to a slider motor mount so switching belts or adjusting belts for tension, or using differing belts would be possible.

It's funny how close your machine and the stretched machine look similar. When I was in college, one of the professors talked about the simultaneous invention theory. Basically, it was a deal where multiple inventors came up with a product about the same time frame. That's why there were Russians that produced a telephone at the same time as Alexander Graham Bell did.

What do you think about that stretched Coot? I was thinking of the same, however I do like the current length of the thing, and much longer would add to steering issues through obstacles. I did add electric power steering, which really helped things. I could use more leg room up front, so I may in time cut the front tub and add some additional space.

There are a couple folks out there that switched the power train to the back tub which is bigger and allows more access for maintenance, which would be another option.

[allwheeldrive]

I think if I had a heated garage…or even a shed to work in it wouldn’t be a much as an issue. Working under a tarp hung over the roll cage in the dead of winter with just a head lamp and a very limited set of tools can make any task strenuous. But Alas it is almost spring.. but I don’t want to work on the machine in nice weather I want to drive it! Lol

Yea I’ve heard of the same principle sort of like how pyramids sprung up all over the ancient world without any communication. It is funny how two Coots which are not all too common can have such similar set ups.

I’m personally not really a fan of the idea of bumping out the front for more leg room and engine space. That would impact the approach angle enough to annoy me. As it is, my front brush bars do this but at least dirt can slide between them, they are not like a wall.
Making a coot with two rear long sections would work better I think. But than your wheel base increases like you mentioned. Less steering and easier to get hung up on stuff in the middle. Honestly if I could snap my fingers and change the coot's size I’d have a double short Coot. Rear section as small as front. My passengers always complain the seat is too far away from the front cab and they have to lean forwards to reach the hand bar. Also I just don’t need to lug stuff back there but people. Shorter belly = less high centering / dragging in snow and mud. I’d be ok with that. As for as being an acrobat and sliding my legs under the front dash and steering wheel. Shrug it could be worse. If the machine is running I don’t care how contorted I have to get to fit and use it and I’m 6’ lol.

I think electric steering is 100% the way to go and will upgrade at some point, your coot seems so much more usable with it. Even with the narrow NDT tires I find my arms turn to jello after an hour working the machine about in rough terrain. 4 wheel steering is scary good at getting all the tires to find traction when stuck. Honestly as much as I love 6wheelers only having half your tires spinning when trying to get around something or back onto solid land was always problematic. Jump out of the coot, use the hand throttle and work the wheel like mad and I’ll tell you what this is quite frankly the most impossible to get stuck machine I’ve ever driven.

Any ways I picked up a set of flexible head retching box wrenches, so hopefully I can get to some of the bolts I couldn’t before and get the transmission out.

[allwheeldrive]

Ok, update. Got driven clutch out. Anyone have any ideas what model this is? I assume it's original as my 2nd spare transmission has an identical one on it. I just need to know where I can get a stiffer or new main spring. It's approximately 4" wide. 3" non compressed. The wire thickness is 0.257"

[ARGOJIM]

That is a speed sensitive clutch, you may be better off with a torque sensitive clutch.

Perhaps Noel and race will chime in with what they've done.

[allwheeldrive]

Yes it is, but I have had no problem with bogging down the engine, I just want it to stop slipping and I'd like to make sure everything works right before I slap another $250$ into this.

Though I'll be honest in saying I never understood how a "torque sensitive" driven clutch would work any different than a normal v-belt driven clutch.

You apply throttle. The Engine speed increases. The drive clutch's weights pull the clutch in closer together. This in turns lowers its gear ratio. As the path the belt takes around it increases.

The increasing belt tension (as the belt is now essentially too short to span the distance) pulls in on the Driven clutches main spring. The spring's resistance is what gives "bite" on the belt. If the driven clutch was welded closed and could not move when the engine RPM increased the drive clutch would get "bigger" and pull the belt tighter and tighter until. It broke or something.

Well if you had no spring in the driven clutch there would be no bite. It would offer no resistance and open to the widest point early on allowing the belt to slip.

So that is my interpretation of how a CVT clutch system works on our machines.

Now say you go up a steep hill or pull a heavy load.

This is going to slow engine RPM speed just like in a car or anything regardless of transmission type. Slower RPM means less centrifugal force in the drive clutch. It is going to open less and thus the Driven clutch is going to stay in a higher gear ratio and offer more torque. technically this is always happening all the time. Any resistance to movement slows the engine, and increases the Gear ratio. The increase of gear ratio decreases load and increases RPM. As it was explained to me and makes perfect sense. A correctly set up CVT system always attempts to maintain the engine in it's power band. Thus the engine is always running at the same peak RPM. Which makes sense to me. In first gear. Full throttle or just a hair will sound exactly the same and the coot will top out at exactly the same top speed on a flat. While if I put it in neutral I can rev the engine from stall to redline. But once in gear it is always screaming full RPM no matter on hills, flat anything.
That to me is torque sensing.

I think the common belief is that if you mash the pedal you'll increase RPM and thus end up in a higher gear with less torque, but by default if your under load your engine RPM HAS to decrease (I mean how else would you stall or be looking for more power?) and if your RPM decreases the Drive clutch opens and your gear ratio becomes higher. Giving you the torque.

[allwheeldrive]

So from googling until I found a clutch that looks like mine I'd say it was: Diablo Rouge Clutches and Drive Belts — Bolens Hus Ski and Diablo Rouge
Salsbury 900 Series Torque Converter

However searching for that gets me no results as well sigh.

I sent an email 2 two snowmobile / ATV specialty shops and to RichardRelics no replies yet.

[dirtdobber]

Allwheel if you can't find a spring from a retailer, as a last resort you can go to McMaster-Carr website and try to find one there. You will have to search through their spring selections to get the right dimensions, and somehow you need to measure the force of your stock spring to compare to the force of the new spring. You may not be able to do this, but its worth thinking about.

On another note, call Roy at Quality Drive Systems and see if he can help you. (626) 293-5770