The **OTHER** Super Swamp Fox build....

[hydromike]

I've been working on the Super Swamp Fox frame build and have been laying things out for a little while. I started boxing in the frame and finishing the C channel on the outer rails, and have just about finished the two primary chain adjusters. The stock setup used a sliding T-20 mount to tighten the primary chains instead of true chain adjusters. I thought about going with idler sprockets, but I love the results I've been having with the Hustler's polyethylene rollers. I could have done it a few different ways, but I went with a setup that I (and thousands of others) have had luck with. It's bascially a Max IV primary chain adjuster that pushes against the chain instead of pulling.

[jpswift1]

Nice work, dude! Sometimes you wonder why these companies never designed something like this to eliminate all the other headaches down the road.

[hydromike]

Part of building a brand new frame from scratch means you're bound to do something wrong at least once, and that there really aren't many absolutes constraining you in how you want to lay things out. So, if I'm bound to do something wrong, and there's nothing to stop me, I have to put the frame in and take it out about 300 times before it's done, just to make sure things are going OK from a fitment standpoint. I threw the 75% complete frame into the body yesterday and layed a couple of the larger parts in to see how things were looking. My 'Fox didn't have an engine or transmission in it when I got it, and since I've not sat in one before, I didn't know what it actually felt like.

In order to get enough room to (hopefully) carry stuff in the back of the machine, I wanted to keep the T20 location close to stock, which is right under my keester. That meant the engine has to be darn close to my keester. I don't know if a Vanny will be going in the machine (doubt it, actually), but whatever ends up in there will be tight to the seat-back.

We'll make it work....

[hydromike]

The ultimate choice of powerplant to use in the Swamp Fox has eluded me for a while, but it's usually when I stumble across opportunity that the decision is made for me. I found three Kubota WG750 engines for sale, and couldn't pass up the deal. I'm running a WG750 (750cc, 24-25hp, 3-cyl gas engine) in my Attex Tank Trainer, and I really couldn't be happier with it. The engines don't have gut-wrenching torque (40 ft-lbs or so) nor are they a real screamer (3600 rpm is about tops...) (here are the specs for the WG752, basically the same engine) but for the application I'll use them in, they're just great for me. One of the engines was in running condition, and two had been "decommissioned" from truck-mounted carpet cleaning apparatuses (I know...weird, right?) The decommissioning process, due to potential liability/misuse, etc., dictated that the machines had to be rendered "inoperable" when they were removed from the trucks. I thank them for doing it the easy way, which meant just smashing the valvetrain with a hammer, when they could have run them at WOT without any oil. For about $135, I have all the new parts for one of the valvetrain-repair jobs, and I suspect the last one will be substantially cheaper to fix up.

When I picked up the first engine for Big 5 (my Attex 8x8, for those new to the game), it didn't come with an output shaft. I cobbled one together that worked fairly well for a while, but member mark m. graciously offered his machinist skills to fabricate a more proper output hub for my clutch; one with less than 1/4" of runout on the end of the shaft. Each of these engines came outfitted with a keyed 1" shaft, so that eliminates the need to mooch the free services of friends.

There is quite a bit of room in the SSF, so side-to-side fitment won't be an issue. I want to try to get as long a belt as possible to move the exhaust manifold (and thusly, the entire engine) back further than the one picture shows.

[amphibious drew]

Good find mike. Why do major entities insist on braking and destroying perfectly good stuff that could be reused by someone else though. It really bothered me when the fed bought all those nice cars and destroyed them so you would buy a car with better gas milage, because it had to use less energy and resources to make that new fuel efficient car than it would have to run those classics for 5,10,20 years even.

[Tomo]

Hydromike

Hi ,
Just fitted the engine [Vanny ] and tranny into my SSF after the rebuild and to put it simply there is no room to spare .
It really depends on 2 things
1/ How much rear seat room area do u require
2/The length of ATV kevlar belts available . The SSF will use typically a longer belt .

I had no original steel parts and all steel work was remade including the seat frame . With the seat ,engine and tranny in positions very very similar to original .
With a 780drive and 770 driven, vanguard v twin and t 20 i can use a 46 inch belt .
U must be creative with the seat as the vanguard valve cover sits very close to an adults rear end . THE MOST IMPORTANT part is the seat frame forms part of the engine cover .With that in mind sheet metal the seat frame to form the front half of the engine cover .The way u do this allows the engine to sit closer to the t20 also .The original position for the t20 is the edge of the rear casing is equal or 1 inch forward of the middle axles .
I positioned the t20 approx 1 inch behind the middle axles .
cheers
tomo

[hydromike]

Hey, Tomo...

When I put the Vanguard in, I was surprised at how close the engine was going to be to the seat-back, even with a longer belt. The original T-20 mount was missing on this machine when I got it (thank goodness), so I fabbed up a rigid mount and sort of guessed at where I thought it should be. I have the Kubota engine sitting on the frame with the T-20, and I can finish up the engine mount when I get the drive clutch for the Kubota. I've not deciced on the geometry of the seat frame and the engine cover. That part is a way off, and there are a few different directions I could take it in. I'm not going to run a Kevlar belt, (it's just a 25hp Kubota, for goodness sake...) so I can run up to a 58" belt or so. That'll let me slide the big blue piece of iron back further. Rear seat room isn't critical to me, since passengers tend to bail out fairly quickly.

[racerone3]

Rear seat room isn't critical to me, since passengers tend to bail out fairly quickly.

If you didn't drive like a lunatic, your cousin wouldn't have to scurry back and forth across the back seat so much

[hydromike]

Dude.

Check the instant replay. I was barely making forward progress.



A niiiiice, sloooooow crawl through the muck and mire. The little rascal was countering my every weight shift as I tried to get traction in a few mudholes. Just sit still, you little *%$&, or we're going nowhere!

I fear for Q's retribution on the track later this month....

[hydromike]

I haven't updated the thread in a while, but I've made a bunch of progress. When last we met, the Super Swamp Fox was a semi-roller, with the engine, transmission and seat frame basically laid out. While piecing the machine together, I came across a couple small problems with the layout that needed to be remedied. The driven clutch was going to rub on a primary chain adjuster when it was fully engaged, the chain adjusters didn't have enough travel in them, the engine I had originally intended for the 'Fox had a couple minor top end problems (stuck rings, bent valve), and so the beast came back apart.

I did quite a bit more work on it this fall, and am still on a tenuous track to get it quasi-complete by April's Busco.

The sprocket tubes have been replicated (2" DOM, 1-1/4" axles [yup, that's a 3/8" wall]), and the sprockets are resting on them after being turned down on the lathe. The primary chain adjusters have been refabbed to give a bit more throw and miss the driven clutch. The transmission has been moved forward about 1.5". I made up a twin stick shifter for the T-20. The T-20 has been gone through and checked (new seals/fiber washers, two new output bearings, bands checked, etc....). The engine mount is 90%, and it only needs to have the slotted holes cut in the frame for adjustment. The chain adjusters for the fronts and rears will be a lot like a Max II, but I’m using Unistrut instead of the ratchet adjusters.

I had to make up a rocker-arm stud in the lathe for the replacement Kubota engine, since the decommissioning process destroyed the old stud and its hole in the head. After getting all of this stuff accomplished, I went to fire the machine and couldn’t get it running for anything. I had already taken the entire carburetor apart and cleaned it out, but the darn thing wouldn’t even fire without a fistful of constantly-applied choke. It turns out I was a bit generous when I JB-welded the old anti-diesel solenoid hole shut, and a good dollop of it plugged up the main jet. After boring it out with a small drill bit, the engine fired up and purred away.

There is still a ton to do, and the skeleton of the beast doesn’t look like much, but it’s been a long 9 months building this frame from scratch.



Oh, here's a short (and miserable quality) YouTube video of it running.... and apparently, there's no sound. Ugh, I'll try to get something more respectable.

[Mike]

Nice work. Are you trying to make those axles geoJem proof?

[Stonewall]

That rig is looking great! I like how you built a cage of sorts around the engine. That should add alot of structural integrity to your frame.

[Hogneck]

I figured we could all double up on the fun of watching JP build up his Super Swamp Fox. Mine was a bit of a haul to pick up, but was well worth the 1468 mile round-trip tour of the beautiful American Mid-West.

The frame on this one isn't nearly as nice as JPs, but the body is really quite nice. Both back axles were cut off by the previous-previous owner, so I had to cut some for it over the weekend just to be able to move this hulking mass of AATV history around. I have the front floor pan and the OH160 engine cover which are in great shape. I doubt I'll use them, though.

The frame is rough, it'll need new axles, sprockets and bearings (don't they all?), but that's the easy stuff. The hard part is deciding on power, and getting the layout right the first time around, so I don't end up saying "I wish I'd done that differently". The Hustler got done pretty quickly, and the Max VIII is basically on hold for a while until I decide which direction I want to go with the next step.

Anyway, here she is. She's a bigg'un.



~m

Nice!! Great work !

[hydromike]

Nice work. Are you trying to make those axles geoJem proof?

I can only wish! A stock SSF weighs in at about 1,000 pounds. This one has a bit more frame, a bit more engine, and probably will have heavier tires. I should have gone with 1 1/2" axles....

[Mike]

You know, I often find posts of mine don't say what I thought I typed. Why is that? I was thinking about how large the sprocket tubes were, not the axles.