Mystery 6x6

[lewis]

Machine looked pretty fast and very maneuverable in the water.

[lewis]

I find them in the banks of the river, especially after the ice carves out the banks in the spring, and after floods. The rivers are not in the same place and as wide as they were 3ooo-10000 years ago, the river changes course over the years, so the artifacts I find in the river could have been woodland thousands of years ago.

Coop

Very nice collection of arrowheads.

[Coop]

I don't really have a take on the whole carbon dating thing, bigger minds than mine came up with that, I don't know enough about it to argue it. But it would seem that lava wouldn't be able to be dated, it isn't organic, don't know if it has carbon in it or not. I do know that dating isn't an exact science, when a date is arrived at at a dig site, there is a +/- factor, sometimes as much as 100-400 years. I guess we can't know with complete certainty, nobody was there to record the data. But I'm betting they have it pretty close.....

Coop

[chris davison]

Thats very intersting Coop thanks for the info. Wonder why the bow was developed so late, Egyptians were using it in 3000bc Iv'e read somewhere that we really have no accurate dating sys. They all depend on an assumption like asuming that carbon 14 decay rates have always been the same. How could we know for sure? I read that lava deposits in hawaii that were seen being deposited dated to 500,000 bc. What is your take on this?

[JoeMeg]

The historic cultures in my area include the Iroquois, Senecas, Huron, Owasco, tribes. A little off topic, but thats ok, it's my thread....

Coop[/QUOTE]


And,like the mystery 6x6,very interesting. Thanks for posting.

Joe

[Coop]

Artifacts can be dated by area found, shape of point, & material. Different cultures of Native American people made points and tools distinctive to their culture. For example, points that have a flute,(channel), on one, or both sides at the bottom of the point, and have laterial flaking across the point are from the Paleo period, which dates from 10000-14000 BP,(before present). The Paleo culture, (which is believed to have been the first people that migrated to North America from Asia by crossing the frozen Bering Strait ), is broken down into different sub groups, depending on location and age: Clovis, Folsom, Hardin, just to name a few. Archelogists can date the finds based on carbon dating of organic matter they find on dig sites along with the artifacts they find. People assume that all pointed artifacts are either spears or arrowheads. The bow and arrow didn't come into use in North America until around 1000-1500 years ago, so before that, small projectile points were actually dart points that were thrown with an atatal throwing stick. By the 1700's Native Americans were starting to use steel and other metals that had been introduced to them by the early settlers. Anything 1000 years ago to present is considered historic, older than that is considered prehistoric. The historic cultures in my area include the Iroquois, Senecas, Huron, Owasco, tribes. A little off topic, but thats ok, it's my thread....

Coop

[chris davison]

How do you date these with any certinty? what is BP? I dont know any thing about dating these artifacts but the big one could be the spear point since it has the notches to tie it to a shaft. The little one looks like an arrow head to me and I have seen flint knives with bone handles. so just from my ignorant view that is what they look like, just a guess. How do we know they were not lost by an indian in say 1780 AD? I have seen lots of obsidian in Calif in the Mono area and they say they traded it up to 600 miles away. Thats a long walk.

[Coop]

The big one is what is called a Snyders point, it was probably intended to be used as a knife, it is made out of a black flint. There isn't any obsidian here on the east coast, no volcanos here. It dates back to the Woodland period, 2200-1800 BP. The other point is a Susquehanna Broad, that one is older, 3200-2700 BP, it was probably a spear point. It is a very addictive hobby for me, the thrill of finding something that was part of somebodies day to day survival after it was dropped there thousands of years ago, and then I am the first person to touch it since it was lost, is just amazing to me. It kind of puts our short lives into perspective, if we're lucky we get to stay on this earth 70-80 years, I have stuff I have found that is 140000 years old, thats a lot of lifetimes....

Coop

[chris davison]

That one is huge they must be hunting bears. what tribes used to inhabit the area. Is the rock obsidian?

[Coop]

Chris...Funny about the Broad head...Show her this is what they look like....A couple of my good finds. The big one I dug out of a river bank last year right after the ice flow had melted and water had receded...

Coop

[chris davison]

Coop do you know what rpm these flow rates are achieved at? I"m assuming they are not a pistom pump or motor so you should get 85% of these flow rates. What will you set the relief valve at? and what is the max rpm of the motor and is the pump rated for that rpm? I can give you hp needed and motor torq and rpm from these # but right now it looks as if the motor will run 1.21 times faster than the pump.

[chris davison]

Coop my wife and I like looking for fossils and arrow heads I found an arrow head in the dirt road and told my wife and she excidedly said" let me see it" so I showed her the stainless broad head I found and she just looked at me with contempt as I laughed.

[Coop]

Chris....the motor I have is a Sauer Danfoss, max flow is 19.8 gpm, it does have a drain which I will use, I will be feeding it with a 24 gpm pump. The Subaru engine is 85 hp, I should have plenty of power. As far as water speed, I'm not to concerned with that, it had pretty good speed before with the drive right off the engine, I'm sure I can get the same performance hydraulically. I'm not planning on pulling a skier, just putting around the creeks and rivers, checking out the banks for artifacts...

Coop

[chris davison]

Coop one of the reasons I decieded to stay with a mechanical drive on the pump is efficiency I will get the most out of my 53 hp.
hydraulic pumps and motors are usually 85% efficient unless you use a piston pump or motor they are 95 to 99% efficient and they all lose Eff. as the pressure increases from internal leakage some motors have a port on them that you connect to tank to drain off this leakage others are vented to the low pressure side. The ones with the vent has to be drained off to prevent them from blowing out the seals. How are you going to size your sys. for your motor hp or for fixed hull displacement max speed? That would be a smaller sys.

[Coop]

Chris....I had thought about using an electric clutch, I could mount that directly on the hydraulic motor. You are right, not running the hydraulics all the time would cut down on the heat in the system, no need to run the hydraulics when not in the water. Using a clutch om the pump also does away with the need for a valve between the hydraulic motor and pump, I could just plumb the motor directly to the pump, turn it on when I need it. I will have a filter on the suction side, and the radiator I picked out for the engine cooling also has a transmission cooler in it, so I'll plumb into that for the hydraulic cooling. If that isn't enough cooling, I'll incorporate a dedicated cooler for it. Like you, I will start out with chain drives until I get the correct speed fiquired out, if it isn't too fast, I'll probably stay with the chains, otherwise, I'll look into some kind of chain/ belt arrangement.