Newbie Info on building an Attex racer help help

[BrettandCheyenne]

Ok just getting into the scene here and want to learn as much as possible. I have a few projects behind the pole barn and I am thinking about dragging one in for a racer build. An St,295, or the 252 colt is what I have as participants. I am searching for any info on roll cage how to's, should I use a harbor freight pipe bender? What type of steel do you use? Measurements dimensions and track rules? What are recommended sprocket and axle sizes, factory or are there aftermarket upgrades? Looking for parts websites if there are any. I would use a stock engine of some sort for now 440cc most likely but I see a bunch of guys with some wild expansion chambers on there 2 strokes. What do you guys prefer to run and where could I find an exhaust like that? Racing seat I could order no problem but the steering sticks are positioned forward and have quite a bend to fit the driver nicely. Are they made and bent up aswell? How low do you mount the seat and what type of floor pan are you guys using? Looking around the site here for pix but would love to talk to some one or get some pix of how it's made and how you did it. I have been looking at Racer pics and they have me drooling to build one.you can tell I have never seen a racer in person but caught the itch give me a shout, send me a message. I'm sure I opened up a can of worms here but willing to learn...Thanks guys... Brett from Harrisburg

[johnedwardketch]

lol...heyy mr newbie thats funny ya got a long wayy to go my friend alot to learn research get and buy....as for a racer look up lewie..on this site hes top notch when it comes to racers thats all he does...but im one of the top attex specialist around had thgem all from the st-300's( crapp-****''- machine) to the 400 chiefs 440 thunderchiefs and i special in the super chiefs for over 27 years taking them all apart rebuilding them enhancing them enigines ttrans'' axels bearings sprockets chains carburations air filters exausts ect firt'' your main problem is a 295 colt # 40 chains and sprockets wont hold up to a 440 engine torgue speed...the axels are only a 3/4 thick or 7/8ths they'll break in racing on thee bumbs and slopes and no body botheres to take a stock 295 into a racer there too slow and the bunker hill trans sucks too..hundreds of dollars and very smart inginuity of mechanical ability it takes to upgrade chang-out stuff theres a catororie on this site about racing rules and regulations some prequisits are a real pain in the ass some not that bad about restrictions i can go on and on and on on stuff to help ya so feel free to write to me and ile guide through alot go to the gallery slot click on attex atvs pics scroll down towards the bottom youll see the top atttes chief in the country worth over 8000 i totally redesigned it the post states that john ketch ported air filter system out the rear and stainless exaust chrome tips'' DUAL out the rear of machine super badd ass no one has this nationally

[ARGOJIM]

I would contact Lewie72, his racer was for sale in the fall and is very nice.

[BrettandCheyenne]

Thumbs up on the info! Lew fixed me up with a 484 chap for my super chief not too long ago and it really got me into these things.i will look at his pix here shortly. I didn't want to tear up the thunder chief I have but it seems like everything is more heavy duty about it than the s/t or the colt. Might be the better candidate for a starting project. I will be browsing the site for pix and info but if you guys find anything I should be reading up on post it to me... Thanks!

[hydromike]

Don't fret Brett, we'll get you sorted out.

Both the ST/295 and the 252 Colt are a fine place to start a racer build. Correcting the "top Attex specialist" above, both of these machines are T-20 based and have #50 drive chain and have 1" axles. (As a side note, the Baker Hill transmissions and #40 chain work almost too well in racers. Jim Gerber (the NEEDT 2 stroke stock and mod points leader this year) and Don Kinyon (2-stroke stock runner up) are both running Chaparral G50B engines with Baker Hill 6000s and #40 drive chain.)

If you want to just get on the track, the majority of stock components on the 295/252 will work just fine. In my opinion (and I think others will agree) the best ratio for low-mid power machines seems to be a 26 tooth primary sprocket with the stock T-20 sprocket. It's a great balance of low end and top speed with all other elements being equal. There are a few different classes that you can enter depending on what engine or carburation you're going with. I won't dive into the specifics, so here's a link to the 2016 rules: http://www.6x6world.com/forums/6x6-atv-racing/34179-2016-race-rules.html

The Harbor Freight tubing bender is a good start for building up a cage. I've owned one for about 20 years and it works fine for cages. I've been using regular welded seam pipe (not tubing) for my cages, only because I'm cheap and doubt the weight/strength differential causes a big factor in my race victories. I usually crash or burn up well before the finish line. The big key with the the HF bender is to go slow. Lay out the pattern you want on a sheet of plywood and make dozens of small bends so as not to crease the pipe. Make a tiny bend (5-10 pumps?), move the pipe in the bender a couple inches, and bend again. It's a pain, but I'm at the point that I can get a decent main hoop bent up in about an hour or so.

Yank out the stock floor pan, and mount your bucket seat as low as it can go while still passing the rods between the laterals (steering sticks) and T-20 beneath it. This to be the limiting factor from the seat mounting standpoint. You can move the laterals forward by mounting them on top of the frame and lengthening the rods that connect to the transmission. Put a bend in the laterals with the pipe bender to get the stick position more comfortable and allow plenty of movement with out punching the dash.

Three of my racers have polyethylene floor pans to meet the "chain guard" requirement. it's just a flat piece of black poly that's been cut out around the seat and mounted above the chains with standoffs. You can make more discrete chain guards if you don't want to go "full floorpan". Honestly, if you're over four feet tall, you'll understand how difficult it is to get your foot in a front chain once you sit in the machine, but hell; safety first, right?

A stock, well tuned 440 JLO Cuyuna or G50B Chap with stock clutching and stock 1" bolt-through axles is a mighty good place to start. Most of the components in our machines are well over 40 years old at this point, so the key is to make sure that the sprockets and wheel hubs don't have play in them when bolted together. If your axles are in rough shape (worn bolt holes), just get some 1" 4140 steel and drill holes in them for new axles. Make sure your sprockets aren't junk. Stay away from pitted or shark-toothed sprocket teeth. Use good chain. Diamond and US Tsubaki are reliable sources. I think the best advice I can offer is to go through all of your parts and make sure everything is in good shape and repair, replace what's necessary. Don't be concerned with huge pipes and stainless chrome exhaust tips (I've only ever seen one, nationally...). Once you feed the bug the first time and things go well, you can worry about upgrading to bigger axles/bearings if you think it's necessary.

I have a few pictures in my gallery from the build-up of GeoJem's racer in 2009 that shows the cage coming together and how it's tied into the frame. This cage is really too simple and still needs to be reinforced, but she's a bit more conservative driver than I. http://www.6x6world.com/gallery/g628...uild-2009.html

Also, here's a shot of JP's racer frame. Not much different than what I usually build, but this one came with a Penicillin injector.




Good luck!

[BrettandCheyenne]

That's the info I like to see and hear! I have been looking for parts websites like crazy with no real luck or how to's. Positive encouragement...I'll be studying everything here enough until I work up enough of my own courage to jump on a project. I'm sure I'll have a million questions along the way. Glad it's Friday, I'll be dragging one in the garage this evening to work on dismantling it and see what I have to work with.

[wedge]

If you need help I have a fab shop in Hanover and build roll cages. Just let me know if we can help.

[BrettandCheyenne]

Hydromike you have some good pix of the roll cage. I'm drooling looking at your racer builds. Wedge I'm not too far from you here in Harrisburg. I would like to take a trip down to see you one of these days. Id be more than happy with some roll cage help. Just had the thunderchief out for a few do-nuts in the snow after work here. I'm pumped up to build a racer!

[ARGOJIM]

Don't fret Brett, we'll get you sorted out.

Both the ST/295 and the 252 Colt are a fine place to start a racer build. Correcting the "top Attex specialist" above, both of these machines are T-20 based and have #50 drive chain and have 1" axles. (As a side note, the Baker Hill transmissions and #40 chain work almost too well in racers. Jim Gerber (the NEEDT 2 stroke stock and mod points leader this year) and Don Kinyon (2-stroke stock runner up) are both running Chaparral G50B engines with Baker Hill 6000s and #40 drive chain.)

If you want to just get on the track, the majority of stock components on the 295/252 will work just fine. In my opinion (and I think others will agree) the best ratio for low-mid power machines seems to be a 26 tooth primary sprocket with the stock T-20 sprocket. It's a great balance of low end and top speed with all other elements being equal. There are a few different classes that you can enter depending on what engine or carburation you're going with. I won't dive into the specifics, so here's a link to the 2016 rules: http://www.6x6world.com/forums/6x6-atv-racing/34179-2016-race-rules.html

The Harbor Freight tubing bender is a good start for building up a cage. I've owned one for about 20 years and it works fine for cages. I've been using regular welded seam pipe (not tubing) for my cages, only because I'm cheap and doubt the weight/strength differential causes a big factor in my race victories. I usually crash or burn up well before the finish line. The big key with the the HF bender is to go slow. Lay out the pattern you want on a sheet of plywood and make dozens of small bends so as not to crease the pipe. Make a tiny bend (5-10 pumps?), move the pipe in the bender a couple inches, and bend again. It's a pain, but I'm at the point that I can get a decent main hoop bent up in about an hour or so.

Yank out the stock floor pan, and mount your bucket seat as low as it can go while still passing the rods between the laterals (steering sticks) and T-20 beneath it. This to be the limiting factor from the seat mounting standpoint. You can move the laterals forward by mounting them on top of the frame and lengthening the rods that connect to the transmission. Put a bend in the laterals with the pipe bender to get the stick position more comfortable and allow plenty of movement with out punching the dash.

Three of my racers have polyethylene floor pans to meet the "chain guard" requirement. it's just a flat piece of black poly that's been cut out around the seat and mounted above the chains with standoffs. You can make more discrete chain guards if you don't want to go "full floorpan". Honestly, if you're over four feet tall, you'll understand how difficult it is to get your foot in a front chain once you sit in the machine, but hell; safety first, right?

A stock, well tuned 440 JLO Cuyuna or G50B Chap with stock clutching and stock 1" bolt-through axles is a mighty good place to start. Most of the components in our machines are well over 40 years old at this point, so the key is to make sure that the sprockets and wheel hubs don't have play in them when bolted together. If your axles are in rough shape (worn bolt holes), just get some 1" 4140 steel and drill holes in them for new axles. Make sure your sprockets aren't junk. Stay away from pitted or shark-toothed sprocket teeth. Use good chain. Diamond and US Tsubaki are reliable sources. I think the best advice I can offer is to go through all of your parts and make sure everything is in good shape and repair, replace what's necessary. Don't be concerned with huge pipes and stainless chrome exhaust tips (I've only ever seen one, nationally...). Once you feed the bug the first time and things go well, you can worry about upgrading to bigger axles/bearings if you think it's necessary.

I have a few pictures in my gallery from the build-up of GeoJem's racer in 2009 that shows the cage coming together and how it's tied into the frame. This cage is really too simple and still needs to be reinforced, but she's a bit more conservative driver than I. Racer build 2009... - Amphibious ATV Pictures

Also, here's a shot of JP's racer frame. Not much different than what I usually build, but this one came with a Penicillin injector.




Good luck!

I don't do the LOL thing much on the computer, but with my injured back I actually had to get up and walk away before it turned into LMAO ROTF.

All the info Mike gave you is good, if you were to start building a racer (as I've yet to find the time to) and run into any snags, simply ask the question and you'll receive many a reply as the actual racers would all like to see more machines and competition out there.

Look at the pictures in the racing section and then divert to the individual members pictures and or build threads for some tips, tricks, and maybe some engineering ideas.

Good luck

[wedge]

I tell my customer who are starting out with track cars thy want to buld to First Take your time and get Prices and Ideas together ! If you rush into it you will end up with lost money on parts you won't use or need.

[jpswift1]

Don't fret Brett, we'll get you sorted out.

Both the ST/295 and the 252 Colt are a fine place to start a racer build. Correcting the "top Attex specialist" above, both of these machines are T-20 based and have #50 drive chain and have 1" axles. (As a side note, the Baker Hill transmissions and #40 chain work almost too well in racers. Jim Gerber (the NEEDT 2 stroke stock and mod points leader this year) and Don Kinyon (2-stroke stock runner up) are both running Chaparral G50B engines with Baker Hill 6000s and #40 drive chain.)


Also, here's a shot of JP's racer frame. Not much different than what I usually build, but this one came with a Penicillin injector.




Good luck!

Mike,

First off, thank you for posting the facts and correcting the incorrect information from an earlier post. One of the many great things about 6X6World is the wealth of useful facts and knowledge that people post, and that this information doesn't get diluted with incorrect jibber jabber like on that other forum that nobody really visits anymore.

Thank you for utilizing your creativity with the addition of that Penicillin injector! It's been most convenient lately and saves a trip down to the pharmacy or PP.

[egoperf]

lol...heyy mr newbie thats funny ya got a long wayy to go my friend alot to learn research get and buy....as for a racer look up lewie..on this site hes top notch when it comes to racers thats all he does...but im one of the top attex specialist around had thgem all from the st-300's( crapp-****''- machine) to the 400 chiefs 440 thunderchiefs and i special in the super chiefs for over 27 years taking them all apart rebuilding them enhancing them enigines ttrans'' axels bearings sprockets chains carburations air filters exausts ect firt'' your main problem is a 295 colt # 40 chains and sprockets wont hold up to a 440 engine torgue speed...the axels are only a 3/4 thick or 7/8ths they'll break in racing on thee bumbs and slopes and no body botheres to take a stock 295 into a racer there too slow and the bunker hill trans sucks too..hundreds of dollars and very smart inginuity of mechanical ability it takes to upgrade chang-out stuff theres a catororie on this site about racing rules and regulations some prequisits are a real pain in the ass some not that bad about restrictions i can go on and on and on on stuff to help ya so feel free to write to me and ile guide through alot go to the gallery slot click on attex atvs pics scroll down towards the bottom youll see the top atttes chief in the country worth over 8000 i totally redesigned it the post states that john ketch ported air filter system out the rear and stainless exaust chrome tips'' DUAL out the rear of machine super badd ass no one has this nationally

Apparently you are not an attex expert. Baker hill Trans work great for racing and attex doesn't have 3/4" axles.

[jpswift1]

Apparently you are not an attex expert. Baker hill Trans work great for racing and attex doesn't have 3/4" axles.

Exactly, thank you, Tom. I had a Baker Hill in my first gen Attex racer with a mildly build Cuyuna 440 and it worked well. And there's no such thing as an Attex 295 Colt. It's an Attex 252 Colt and an Attex 295 Wild Wolf, which neither machine had 3/4" nor 7/8" axles.

[BrettandCheyenne]

Thank you guys for backing me on on that guys post. New to the game and making the best out of what I have to use to get into racing.It's a start and might not be the best start but a hobby that makes me happy.

[egoperf]

Just build what you can and get on the track. You will learn a lot. It's a blast