Fuel Problem with NEW 29 HP Kawasaki

[smithder]

I drainined the gas as requested by Max by disconecting it at the fuel pump and jacking the front up as high as possible. When I opened the petcock the fuel ran out full stream into a gas can. This confirmed there is no restriction from the tank to the pump. Put in new gas and of course no change. I made a video of me giving it throttle. You can hear the first three or four strokes after throttle is applied is only intake sound. It is during this period that the hesitation is felt. My 18 Briggs in the our other Max does not sound like this.

Here is the link.

The govenor on this motor seems to be all or none. Once enough spring pressure is applied from the throttle the govenor throws the butterfly valve to full open. Max has us dropping it off at the local Kawasaki repair center and they are suposed to look at it tomorrow. Maybe it will be a simple fix.

[smithder]

29 EFI Kawasaki Throttle Surge

Please help identify the problem with this brand new 29 HP Kawasaki. The throttle is not linear at all. This makes the machine very difficult to drive safely. As you slowly advance the throttle the engine responds in very big surges rather than smoothly following your input. I've talked to Max and Kawasaki regarding the problem with no luck! When compared to my 04' Briggs the problem is evident. Please help! Anyone know if Argo uses the same type linkage?


Kawasaki

Part II

Briggs

[jpswift1]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the machine judging by those videos. These engines aren't designed like a fuel injected sport bike 4 cylinder that responds to super quick "blips" of the throttle, like you were giving it around the 1:58 mark in the first video. It revs down perfectly fine, not as fast as the Briggs, but that's just the nature of the two different engines. Most of the applications that the V twin Kawasaki engines are used are in mowers, are other applications where a constant throttle level is administered. You were "blipping" the throttle much quicker and doing it on and off around the 1:58 mark in the first Kawasaki video compared to where you did it just on and then off once in the video of the Briggs around the 0:30 mark. I've drove and worked on Max IV's with the 27 and 29HP Kawasaki V twins and that's just how they perform. Rest assured, there's nothing unsafe about it and nothing wrong with it at all. I noticed a slight difference too when driving my Briggs Vanguard machines on the trails and then switching to a friend's Max IV with the Kawasaki V twin. If I were you, I'd get more and more drive time on it and just become accustomed to it. Each engine brand behaves a little differently than the next; Tecumsehs, Briggs, Kawasakis, Kohlers, etc. The Kawasaki is a great engine and it sounds perfectly healthy, so go and have some fun with it......it's makes for a very capable machine.

[MaxRules]

JP is mostly right on target with his assessment, these engines don't offer the performance that many are used to with quads. However, I watched the video closely and although it is hard to really judge it, I don't think that is as good as the throttle gets. It looks and sounds very jumpy. I'd like some more info on the previous issue with this engine, such as what the original problem was now that the thread is merged with the old one. What was the solution? I've seen many small engine shops really jack up the governor settings and that could be what is going on here.

[smithder]

Guys
I did not know this would be merged with the old thread so let me clear up a something.

Originally we were surprised by the slight hesitation the EFI engine has when the throttle was "blipped". It was wrongly being blamed for what we now recognize as the real issue. What I am attempting to show in the videos is the fact that the Kawasaki does not have linear throttle pull. As the hand throttle is slowly advanced the linkage is putting tension on the spring that goes to the governor arm. Once the tension is great enough the engine suddenly jumps by several hundred rpm. Then as you continue to advance the trottle there is a large flat area with no affect until it happens again and you get your next big jump in rpm. In the Briggs video the engine rpm smoothly increase as throttle is applied. In the Kawasaki video the hand throttle is being applied as smooth as possible but the rpms increase in what is usually 3 big jumps. No matter how smooth you are on the throttle the governor action causes these large steps in rpm rather than a linear increase mimicking the action being applied to the hand lever. This makes the machine impossible to operate smoothly.

As added detail when the machine is started dead cold the throttle does perform as desired for a few minutes until the engine starts to warm. Then it is back to the jumpy throttle reaction. Hope this helps.

[Bazooo guy]

In your part II video you can see the governor spring ....move it to the left hole on the throttle lever and see if it helps.

[smithder]

Tried both holes.

[Bazooo guy]

The throttle cable looks a bit loose...try and adjust it tighter.
Also as mentioned:

These engines aren't designed like a fuel injected sport bike 4 cylinder that responds to super quick "blips" of the throttle, like you were giving it around the 1:58 mark in the first video. It revs down perfectly fine, not as fast as the Briggs, but that's just the nature of the two different engines. Most of the applications that the V twin Kawasaki engines are used are in mowers, are other applications where a constant throttle level is administered.

[smithder]

I'm clear on the quick throttle reaction and don't see it as a problem. The problem is after it warms up the throttle increases in about three increments instead smoothly increasing. This happens even if you throttle it where the cable is attached so I don't think the cable has anything to do with it. It's almost like I have an internal governor issue or something.

Runs and throttles great when cold. Throttle is very stepped and not linear after its warm making it impossible to drive smoothly. When you take off slow and start increasing throttle for a slight increase in speed, nothing happens until the engine surges forward by several hundred rpm throwing your head back. Smooth as silk when cold.

[Bazooo guy]

Disconnect the governor spring and see how it runs.
Is the arm stiff to move?
Could be binding on something.

[plott hound]

heres some reading for you. http://www.lawnsite.com/archive/index.php/t-249543.html

[ARGOJIM]

It almost looks as if the governor spring is slightly weak, a cheap check would be to replace the spring and if it's any better at least you'll know your in the right area or not.

[JohnF]

Something is binding and since you mention it runs fine until warm then I would assume it is heat related.

Static coefficient of friction is higher than dynamic coefficient of friction. The binding hold everything constant until the throttle spring force becomes high enough to overcome the binding, causing whatever is binding to become dynamic so that it jumps to the point where it becomes static again, etc.

That's what's happening (my guess) but it doesn't tell you what the problem is. Some binding is going to happen. Could be that you have the wrong springs. Too light and the binding effect will be magnified. Too heavy and you might not be able to work the throttle or the governor may be ineffective.

Try working one step at a time towards the butterfly valve shaft to see if you can feel where the binding is happening. You'll likely have to go slow with it because once you get beyond the throttle spring you may find that the jumpiness disappears. (because your finger's rate of force is much higher than the spring)

But honestly, I would target a stronger throttle spring (which may need a stronger governor spring to balance).

[JohnF]

Stopped by to see how this turned out and add a bit.

Checked out the service manual. There's only one spring on this control system, I was thinking the FD620D controls. It has two. Ignore what I said about two springs. Yep, like the other guys said, that is the governor spring.

You could add small rubber bands just to test the theory that the spring is weak.