Fd620 99 conquest issues at 47hrs.

[sofob0909]

Hey guys. I am having some trouble with my conquest. Bought this a year ago and when I got it I replaced the entire fuel system and lines. Rebuild the carb.

Thing ran great but the tires sucked. I just bought 8 Kendra bearclaws. And today I went to drive the machine into the shop to pull the wheels and swap.

The agro wouldn't start... Just spin and spin. No popping at all.
Had been sitting on rock pile for 3 weeks. About 30 degree slope nose up.
First tried some fuel down the throttle... Nothing. Then drained bowl and pumped up fresh gas. Nothing. Pulled plugs and they were wet. Cranked it over with plugs out and let it sit. Reinstall plugs and tried with no avail.

So now I break out the spark inline tester. But plugs had spark.

So pushed machine inside and put on lift.

Compression tested... 120 reached pretty fast. If I bump the starter I can get it up to 155ish... Wtf? Manual says 170 min.

Machine ran great when parked. I have been trying to get it to run Bette with pilot screw but it was perfect when I parked it.

Even tried tweaking it in and out to no avail.

What could cause this loss of compression? I did notice dip stick was about 3/4". High( thinking fuel in oil). Which is common.

So. What are my options... Do I need to pull the motor out? Can I do anything else with it in the machine...

[ARGOJIM]

If your oil is high and smells like gas I'd change it.
With the machine sitting outside you want to try some wd40 in the key switch, disconnect the battery and cycle the switch a whole bunch with the wd40 sprayed directly in key slot, it could be corroded contacts in switch.

[sofob0909]

Well now i have different symptoms...
it is backfirng like crazy when I operate the throttle
I put some oil in the cylinders to help build some compression.

My thought is maybe it jumped out of timing? Would explain lower compression whichbis same in both cylinders and backfiring. How can I check this in the machine?

[sofob0909]

And now I need to pull the motor... Was changing oil with vacuum pump in dip stick tube and part of the plastic tube broke off in the motor. I just invented some colorful words.

[ARGOJIM]

Check valve adjustment. My guess, pull valve covers, lube valve stems with wd40 while pushing them up and down by hand, re install pushrods and try it again. Valves could be gummed up, if they are too stiff use a small plastic/rubber hammer. Check valve adjustment

You can try and pull the dipstick tube out to get to the hose.

[sofob0909]

I pulled all the valve covers and all valves felt normal. Slight movement when off cam. All valves appear to travel in and out fully. What can I do about the plastic tube in the bottom of the motor?

[sofob0909]

I will soak the valves in seafoam and see if it helps

[ARGOJIM]

That sucks about the hose, again perhaps removing the dipstick tube could help get to it depending where it is, if no you could try the lower drain hole for access. I would not use seafoam on the valves as I would not want that in my engine crankcase.

I'm going to back away from this as the symptoms and issues have changed, I'm too far away to be helpful. May be best to bring it to a Kawasaki dealer, valve lash and a clean carb are very important to Kawasaki to run proper and either will cause back firing through carb.

[sofob0909]

Thanks Argo jim.

I plan to drain the oil again one I get her running again so I am not worried about a little seafoam in the case.

Good idea on removing the drain tube...I'll give that a try.

Once I get the hose out I will lash the valves and clean the carb again.

I am hoping the old girl can get going again without a major rebuild. Would really like to put that money into a winch and tubing for a roof/roll bar.

Your help is greatly appreciated.

[dirtdobber]

sofob0909,

Let's go back to the compression test:

Compression tested... 120 reached pretty fast. If I bump the starter I can get it up to 155ish... Wtf? Manual says 170 min

It has been my experience an automotive compression test is conducted on a free spinning engine (no compression - spark plugs removed) by spinning it over several turns with the starter. I'm not sure how you did your test, but you just "bumped" the starter and got 155. My quick online research indicates your engine should have a max compression of 170 with no more that 14 psi difference between cylinders. In other words, if one cylinder were reaching the max of 170, the other could reach only 156 and be within spec of the max. What you describe in your original post is flooding (the plugs were wet). Too much fuel in the combustion chamber can wash the oil away, and a lack of oil can affect the way the rings seal against the cylinder wall. If you are still concerned about compression, put a little engine oil (tablespoon) in the combustion chamber, whirl the engine over a few times, and then rerun your compression test. But still, at 155 it should run unless there really is some other problem.

If it were my engine, I would take another look at the carb and be absolutely sure it is clean and everything within spec. Eliminate the easiest things first. For that matter, make sure the spark is passing through the plug, not just a spark at the plug wire. I have seen good looking plugs that are totally worthless due to some internal failure.

On another note, how much of the tube broke off? I don't know this engine, but IF the dipstick tube is a straight shot to the crankcase, and the broke piece of tube is long enough that it might still be standing in the dipstick tube, perhaps you could reach down the dipstick tube and grab the broken piece. Maybe something with a very slender and slight taper that if you could hit the piece of tube it would wedge in and grab enough to pull it out.

Keep us posted.

[sofob0909]

So by your description the 120 psi is the correct number. after it reached this number I would let off the key and "bump it again and that first compression during the bump with increase the pressure on the gauge about 10 psi. if I did this a couple times it would creep up until about 150-155.

The manual I have says MAX for 170psi. and so do the other reference sites for Kawi...

170 is a pretty healthy compression in my opinion and 120 is pretty weak. from my research 170 is about 10:1 CR (note this is based on v8s where the volumes are known and the dynamic pressure is measured.)


I plan to take the dip tube off tonight and hopefully that Flipping tube is stuck in the diptube or somethere I can see it.

I am also planning to take the carb off and super clean it. I have been tweaking the pilot screw a lot recently so maybe it is running way to rich and I am washing the cylinders...

I also will get 2 new plugs just because they look really black and dirty. Spark is definitely passing the plugs (testing with inline tester through the plug in cylinder and also verified by grounding plug to block with plug out of head)

Ill keep you guys posted.

[dirtdobber]

So by your description the 120 psi is the correct number

No. I'm saying your method is not consistent with what I understand to be correct for a compression test, but your bumping the starter makes your method more correct and in doing so you achieved 155 psi. I'm also saying the 155 psi is within reach of the max of 170. With that being the case, rule out a carb issue before tearing the engine down (which it sounds like that's what you are going to do).

Hope it solves your problems.

[ARGOJIM]

No. I'm saying your method is not consistent with what I understand to be correct for a compression test, but your bumping the starter makes your method more correct and in doing so you achieved 155 psi. I'm also saying the 155 psi is within reach of the max of 170. With that being the case, rule out a carb issue before tearing the engine down (which it sounds like that's what you are going to do).

Hope it solves your problems.

Decompression system for starting purposes, don't be concerned with that now.

New question and possibility over looked because of the wet plugs deal, if they were Not wet before you poured gas in the throat, and engine is starting to run better, check that the anti dieseling solenoid (shut off valve) is moving freely in and out as it should, a little wd40 wouldn't hurt, as this will cause a lean to no fuel condition. I over looked this because of the wet plugs comment, often times the small gauge wire will also break and create intermittent to no contact. This means no fuel. If the top of the carb is off and the key turned on with the fuel pump Unplugged you should visibly see it move quickly out, also with carb complete you should hear a click once key is turned on.

OH and check your fuel filter for debris and or water bubbles. I've had issues with the seafoam caking on a fuel needle and hanging it up also.

Again Kaws are picky with fuel, carb and valves, other wise quite trouble free.

If you are going to clean the carb again, remove the black cap from the idle mixture screw and then remove it counting turns out, remove the jets and clean the passages with the proper torch tip cleaner size and reassemble.

[sofob0909]

Update.

I was able to fish out the tube from the lower drain plug. !!!!!!!! What a relief it is. This must be what it feels like to get a colonoscopy done and they find something but you then find out it's nothing to worry about. (that was my shot at comedy)
Took about an hour of camera probing and cable claw attempts but it was a success.

Ok now that that is out of the way back to your regularly scheduled programming.

First I pulled the valve covers and checked the clearance. Using .254mm (o.004"and 0.006"). I was able to verify the lash was satisfactory. I rotated the engine around to the compression stroke and both valves were "loose". I then said the 2 gauges in and they were definitely a snug fit but able to slip in and out with some resistance. Repeated on other side after rotation to compression in that cylinder.
By the way compression feels great when I was rotating the motor over by hand.

So now on to the carb.
I pulled the top off (4 screws). And the gas was a nasty orange yellow color. No sedament though.

I pulled the whole carb next to drain the bowl and this requires removing the throttle cable and govener arms.

Drained carb of nasty gas and verified the gas does still burn but I think this may be a possible cause since these kawi motors are so picky with gas. I will siphon out the tank and purge the fuel lines with fresh no ethanol gas this weekend.

Question (87 or 93?)

I removed the float pin and the needle is clean as a whistle and not hanging up at all. Checked both needles in carb top and they too were spotless.


So still have to break down the carb bottom and clean the pilot and main Jets..

Fresh gas and purge line
New oil
Reinstall carb
New spark plugs
And then give her another try...


Today I ordered a drain plug valve for the motor so I don't have to fish out a tube again. So until that comes I can't put oil back in her.

While I have the carb off should I modify the solenoid thing by clipping the end off?

I also ordered a winch and winch hoop for the Argo so that will be going in too.

Will keep you posted

[dirtdobber]

glad you are making progress. It sounds like you are on the right track. While you have the carb torn down, it may serve you well to soak it overnight in some carb cleaner or an ultrasonic cleaner, just to be safe. There are typically tiny passages that are hard to get to. Read the instructions on whatever cleaner you use as it may tell you not to soak rubber parts.