18HP Vanguard need more power!!

[fulleraviation]

Hey Guys,

If you've been reading the ASX tire thread, then you know that I am looking for some more torque/HP for the 18 Vanguard.

What are your thoughts?

Here is what I have done so far. Installed double valve springs and billet spring retainers from EC Dist. Also installed thin head gaskets. Have the stock flywheel key. I have a cutaway, but didnt see much difference so I went back to the stock.

I would prefer to add on some easy bolt on's without doing the cam right now. If that is not possible, then I might as well do the long billet rods, cam and shaved pistons.

What are the thoughts about a lightweight flywheel, different carb or carbs, modifing the stock carb, modifing the exhaust.

If you have links for suppliers, that would be great. I have been researching a little about cams, and would prefer one from new stock materials that have not been welded on.

Thanks in advance for your help,
Rut

[toni5091]

MORE HP

FULLER, Pull the 18 briggs sell it, and install a 25 or 30hp kohler with big clutch. You'll be glad you did, there is nothing better than having enough power at hand when you need it I had a max iv with 18briggs 70% of the time it was ok 30% I was unhappy

[Roger S]

That might be the best path. The 18 will make 30-35 hp but not at 3500 rpm. It might do 25 at 3500.

There are a few things to do that are more time than materials.. a header with good primary tubes and collector(but I have no idea what your IV's muffler looks like anyway). EC for flanges and heymow for tubing supplier links.

Head port work. Send to George for basic job. Would love to try a lightweight flywheel. The engine revs quickly like a two stroke. No good for our heavy vehicles, I fear. Would be fun to see the throttle response in a 500? lb ATTEX though. The ARC flywheel doesn't have magnets for the stator, so there is no charging system under the flywheel possible. Pretty much makes you say, nevermind. EXECPT certain ATTEX owners It is a safety flywheel, expensive peace of mind. Uses a "real" starter.

The carb, drill the main jet to .040 after the header. Mine made plenty of power on that 1 bbl. Other option is a 20 hp intake and 2bbl. Sounds cool, but the barrels are separated to different cylinders. Helps but not the best bang for buck upgrade.

Cams.. Precision Cams. Enough said. George stocks some of them. In 2006, Precision was regriding cams, mine was done in a "265" profile. Easy on the valve train(stock rockers). They now use new blanks and have more agressive profiles. The welded cams are do it yourselfers or that Don Geiner guy who cobbles up flathead opposed goodies.

Cam, compression, and fuel is where real power will come from. It's a slippery $ slope, mainly because the starter system will be borderline after losing the compression release of the stock cam. A real starter and matching flywheels is $400? I don't have them.

George would take your engine and put 16 hp small chamber heads, cut them .040, use a thin gasket. Along with long rods/flat top pistons. 100 octane, a Precision cam and an advance key.

I did long rods/shaved to flat tops, didn't cut the 18 heads, and used the thick stock gasket. A little port work. Header and drilled jets. Those racer guys are never below 4 grand, while our engines have to labor at lower rpm's. So I didn't go crazy on compression OR ign timing. That means your key might be cut a little too much. It might be 34, where I run 27 degrees. The timing is static, so it has full advance at idle.. not great on high compression engine @ low rpm/full throttle. I like to bring the rpm up off an idle before I cram it. Otherwise you can get spark knock.

Tuning the drive clutch helped a lot because it was limiting the engine's rpm.

[fulleraviation]

Roger,

Are you still running the 18 Vanguard, and do you find it reliable with the mods that you performed?

What are you running for fuel?

I could spring for the new engine, but thought it would be fun to mod the 18 some more. I would like to know that If I went to the expense of moding the 18 that I would be happy.

I am happy with it now, and don't run into the boggin down of the engine during my normal riding. This only occurs under extremes like the suction mud in the bog this weekend.

That's for the advice. I will call EC Dist. today.

[fulleraviation]

Here is a link to a thread where we discussed similar information a year ago. Good Stuff.

http://www.6x6world.com/forums/engines/2649-18-hp-vanguard-question.html

[Roger S]

Am still running the 18 I built 2 years ago.

Have used 100 low lead AV gas.. now I carry quarts of tetra ethyl lead additive and add to pump gas. The AV gas is probably safer for humans, while the additive is more convenient, esp on long road trips. Kemco Octane Supreme 130, ordered online.

Whether to build or buy a bigger stock engine.. hard to say. I'm a mechanic who built my first small block chevy 40 years ago.. and my vanguard reminds me of the good ole days. A big, stock engine running on low octane is what most guys would upgrade to. But if you're going to turn 5 grand for top speed, that's a stretch for any stock engine.

A 23 vanguard w/50 amp alt would be nice, sell the 18.. use your existing clutch. Pretty cheap route.. still a stretch to run it 5 grand w/o billet rods. If I was looking for a 23 vanny, I'd try to buy it with the real starter/steel ring geared flywheel, for future mods. What would a 25 or bigger kohler cost.. with clutch and everything

If you build your engine, put an oil pressure gauge on it before you tear it down, some are low from the factory and I did a couple things to get it up.

[Mike]

For the money, it's hard to beat the bandolero motor. I finally got mine complete in time for Busco and it had tons of power. Check out 600 racing for more info: 600 Racing | Home

Just a thought if you go the new-motor route.

[gus marrone]

max

I agree with mike ,I have the Bandolero in Max IV and my Max 2 and never seem to run out of power and it will keep up with the superchief off the line until about 35-40 mph. You can find the motors refreshed from a racer that is stepping up to a newer car for under a grand, it's the best bang for the buck, PM me if you want more info .

[fulleraviation]

Thanks for the info on the motor, but I like to work on stuff so I am going to do a little work on the 18.

I would also hate to have an almost new motor lying arround.

Talked to John at EC Distributing. He recommended COMPRESSION. I am going with a long rod setup and thin head gaskets. He did not recommend a cam unless I wanted to turn more rpm's. His opinion is that I would loose some bottom end that way.

I will run it this way, then probably play with the stock carb. EC can rework it for $300.

Not sure how fast I will get the parts, but I will keep you posted.

Rut

[Roger S]

I like that plan and forgot to mention it. The stock cam will not cause you the cranking problems. I've wanted to see how compression and the stock cam worked out.

[fulleraviation]

Gutted the stock Exhaust

Ever wonder what the internals of the stock exhaust looked like. Gutted the exhaust to get alittle better flow.

[fulleraviation]

I seem to have come down with the H1N1 virus yesterday, and started and completed my engine mods.

I installed a precession cam, long billet rods, shaved the pistons, and installed new thin head gaskets.

It took the whole day. I only broke long enough to eat 2 ice cream sandwiches and drink 2 bud lights.

I deffinately have alot more power, and the 93 octane aint going to cut it. Went the the airport last night and bought some 100LL. Will drain the tank and see how the Avgas does.

Anyone have any recommendations for oil? I like Amsoil, but so far have run the 30 weight B&S oil.

Thanks,
Rut

[Meinfield]

Congrats on the build, that ought to wake that engine up! Just remember the factory briggs flywheels are only good to about 5500 rpm.
When you bump up the compression in these air cooled engines, it will raise the oil operating temperature so it is always good insurance to add an aftermarket oil cooler and fan. I like to run Mobile one synthetic 30W after the break in period.
Post some video!!

[lewis]

Zoom, Zoom, Zoom

Sounds like that cat has some new claws!!!!!! Like to hear how she sounds so post up when your finished. Any plans for a clutch upgrade you should be turning a few more rpm's? Check Whippers exhaust system out it should let it flow better. More power.

Lewis

[fulleraviation]

Yeah, I'm not happy with the gutted exhaust and looking to custom fab something. Whippers exhaust looks awsome on his 50HP briggs Attex.

I have the ARGO high speed clutch, and very happy with it. Not looking to turn over 5,000 rpm, and will keep the clutch as it is for now. So the flywheel is good for 5,500rpm, what is the clutch good for?

I think that Micmac did a great job, and will probably do something similar. http://www.6x6world.com/forums/aatv-...-vanguard.html

What are you guys doing for oil coolers and fans?????