Rubber tracks

[Old Tucker]

With the argo rubber track and the RSB rubber track. Has anyone had an issue with the steel tire guides and bad ware on the tires? :dontknow
I am now looking for a new set of tracks and still flipping the coin on witch way I will go to best suit my needs Would love some input from some of you that are running rubber. And some of the other great tracks that are been made now
I have the argo plastic track and find they just do not suit the conditions I run into.
If I wanted a six foot snow ball they would be great. Snow sticks to then like glue.

[Rock Doctor]

None of my tracks have steel Guides, but even with plastic I've seen sidewalls chewed up and tires pushed off the beads. In my experience, this is more of a Track Width issue. The wider the tracks, the more force the tire guides put on the tire sidewalls, when in twisty conditions (Ruts, Deadfall, Stumps, Rocks, ect). I don't have nearly as many sidewall issues when running narrow tracks (13-14 Inch wide). Of course, when I'm running in deep snow, I prefer to run the wider tracks, but I'm more concious of what I'm driving over.
As for the snow sticking..... Some guys spray their tracks with "slippery stuff" to keep the snow off (WD40, Cooking Spray, ect). I just Beat the snow buildup off my Supertracks if it becomes a problem. (I never have snow/Ice buildup on my Rubber or my Adair Tracks)
I do use, and would recommend, Track Tuners when running Rubber Tracks.

RD

[Old Tucker]

Thanks for the input RD ... Cooking oil WD40 It,s all just a bandaid on a problem. Yes the wider the track the more twist you will have on the track going over logs all right. The new Adair 22inch track sure looks like it would do the trick. As I said before You get what you pay for.
On the rubber track how flexible are they. I know pressure put on the edge of the hard super track when you go over a log is hard on the sidewalls. Would the rubber have more of a tendency of conforming to the ruts? To a certain point?
Where the adair, escargo and channel tracks have the edges of the track raised up off the ground. In doing so it would put less twisting on the track As you go over a uneven surface. but you would loose some floatation in snow.
It boiled down to been 6 beer of one kind and half a dozen of the other. But i would like to know just how flexible are the rubber track.
If I go the rubber I would most definitely would put on the track tuners. Far less ware and tare on the chains.

[Rock Doctor]

I believe the rubber does conform to the terrain better in such cases, but as for mine..... My Rubber Tracks are 14" wide. I find that with the closed face design of the rubber, I don't need to go quite as wide to maintain floatation.
Oh what I wouldn't give to try a set of the 22" wide Adairs, that would be sweet. Wife would probably kill me though, I have 2 Conquests and 6 sets of tracks ready to go, and another set in pieces. I also have a buddy that is trying to get me a set of Escargo Tracks from his company (They bought a set for their Conquests, and NEVER used them. They no longer have Conquests, and the Tracks are just sitting on a pallet in their wharehouse).

RD

[Obsessed]

On the rubber track how flexible are they. I know pressure put on the edge of the hard super track when you go over a log is hard on the sidewalls. Would the rubber have more of a tendency of conforming to the ruts? To a certain point?
Where the adair, escargo and channel tracks have the edges of the track raised up off the ground. In doing so it would put less twisting on the track As you go over a uneven surface. but you would loose some floatation in snow.
It boiled down to been 6 beer of one kind and half a dozen of the other. But i would like to know just how flexible are the rubber track.

Good thoughts and observations....I have spent a lot of time researching this issue also, and this is my two cents worth...
Argo's 18" rubber track (as well as the RSBolic 20" rubber track) are designed to only flex one way (around the tire) they both use a modified snowmobile style utility track with internal fiberglass type rods that are 18 or 20" long...every lug has one molded into it...this makes it possible to use two seperate wheel guides and keep them both pretty ridigd...this allows allows for a track that supports weight very well but is more prone to being twisted off of the tires

Other rubber tracks like the style of Muddox track that Matt builds takes common conveyer belting that is flexible in every direction and then builds a single "U" shapped set of guides that are strong because they are one unit..they are narrower than the rubber therefore leaving the edge of the track unsupported and flexible..

ESCargo tracks also leave the edge of the smooth rubber belting unsupported and mount the belting up closer to the tub bottom, this gives up floatation and also traction on the outer edge of the track

I think that a superior snow track needs to give maximum floatation but have a flexible edge because there are times when you are going to have to smash the track between some trees and ruts and you don't want to be able to easily pry the track off...current Adair snow tracks use a outer extension that is seperate from the grouser so it can flex where it is hinged when necessary, it is also placed up on the tip of the tire where it does not create chain windup and gives maximum floatation is soft terrain

I think that a second (and probably better solution is to run dual tires and a single wheel guide...this eliminates twisting and is still about the same width and greatly improves water buoyancy and safety ....

Just my opinion

Tim

[Buzz]

I've always thought the idea of a dual-tire track would be advantageous...other than the width. But, many tracks end up having the tires spaced pretty far out too to run wide tracks. I've heard about lighter rim/dually tire options, and I've sometimes wished that wider rims and atv tires were made (maybe they are). Even if it was a single, half-again wider rim and tire, it would provide much more track support, buoyancy in the water and could be offset so that wheel spacers may not be needed, and it would remain at a reasonable width for when you are running on just tires.

[Obsessed]

Good points Buzz, I agree.

I've looked all over and nobody builds a really wide tire and rim that would work on our machines, but if I was going to build a custom tire and wheel it would probably be a 26x18x8 and the rim would be a 8 x12(wide)...I'm confident it would not give the full advantage of a track, but it would help. In addition it would provide a lot of additional water safety for some of these newer 8x8's that are exceeding their bouency in weight and it would still keep the machine width at a commonly accepted number

Another thing that you mentioned is round profile tread verse square profile...this is probably the easiest way to gain more water displacement and make it much easier to keep the track on...Adair did it on their MaxII track kit, and I see that Argo is continuing to offer their Centaur 24" turf style tire on the new XTI for certain track options...in my opinion that track and tire will be pretty durable on the big 8x8's

Not sure if we had the exact same thought, but I have often wondered why the factories dont do us all a favor and just extend the axle length by 1.250" and then give the rim a 1.250 inset so that the rim could be flipped for track spacing without additional hardware??? Might need double valve stems and not a coined lug nut seat, but that pretty simple...

tim

[Buzz]

I absolutely agree...dually truck rims are similar in that they can be mounted on either side and when opposite each other they make a nice tight package with enough clearance between each other to be acceptable. No "dually adapters" are needed. I think something like this might work to operate with a "narrow wheelbase", "wide-wheelbase for tracks", and "dually-operation." I haven't really thought it through all the way, but....

[Old Tucker]

I think we are on the right track. Thanks for the input on the RSB rubber track If they made the outer 3 to 4 inches flexible it would be more forgiving when you hit something solid all right. As for floatation they would stand above the others. Where the channel track and the adair lose wheres by mounting the belt about midway up the tire. The argo has very little ground clearance as it is. You buy the tracks to give yourself a little more flotation in snow and mud.
The way they have designed the track to go over a rounded tire makes no sense. All it do,s is allow for the track to slide up the side of the tire and possibly derail. Where if the tire had a more flat tread surface the track would sit a lot better on the tire and not want to fall off the tire. Dual tires and one track guide down the center is the way to go.
It would sure eliminate the twisting of the track. You would not need to go to a big wide tire for this set up. It make a lot of sense to have support on the inside of the track as well as the out side.
If you are running over a lake or a hay field you will be ok with the way the tracks are made now. but if you are 25 miles back in no mans land. You sure do not want to have a brake down with the tracks and flat tires. Because the track pushed the tire off the rim.

Lets hope the man or woman above put there heads together come up with a sensible track for the argo We love our toys And use our toys for work and play.
Again they only have a very little ground clearance and the more snow and mud you push with the tub the less traction you have
As they say do it once and do it right. I think that is how it go,s

[bigbuck]

Its funny when the personal evaluations we sometime employ initally seem to "make no sense"..but when the principle is applied it seems to defy our logic.....

[number1cas]

Hey RD, what are "track tuners"?

BTW I have run the Argo 18" rubber tracks and find them to be quite adequate. They DO wear out the sidewalls, but only in the winter. The combination of wide open cruising and snow causes the sidewalls to wear and turns them gummy. Snow is actually an abrasive and on snowmobiles it is the heat of friction that causes the snow to melt when it hits the sliders and create a slippery thin layer of water for lube. Our machines do not have the wheel speed needed to create the heat and as such causes the unmelted snow to work somewhat like sandpaper. I have ONLY had this wear issue in the winter and also keep in mind that I ran around 800-1000 Miles per winter so people who are doing much less than that may not see the problem.

[Rock Doctor]

Track Tuners are hubs that mount on the end of axles. They effectively turn the wheels loose, allowing those wheels to turn at any rpm, regardless of how fast the axles are turning. Running them on center axles eliminates any chain windup cause by tire to track friction on those axles. Less need to maintain exact tire diameter and pressures. Less stress on the drive components.

[IMG]

RD

[hydromike]

I think this is obvious, but the tuner must be the same length as the Argo wheel spacers? If this is the case, it seems like the tuners must be part specifically made for the Argo application? I'm a bit ignorant on Argos and tracks...

[Rock Doctor]

My Tuners are 2.75", I have 1/4" spacers that I add to the axle extensions on the other axles. If I'm not mistaken, I think I read somewhere that the new Tuners are available in 2.5", same as stock Argo axle extensions.

RD