UHMW traction devices

[Obsessed]

took me about a half hour to remember how to upload a picture but finally figured it out again...been a while since i have tried adding one...here are the only pictures i stopped the other night to take while out playing...this was taken as we were all trying to cross over some log jams on the frozen river we were riding on...took it with my cell phone in the dark so its not great, but its a pretty good picture of my buddy John that i work with when he drove up on top of a pretty big log and then just shut it off to relax for a few minutes...the 3 of us had a blast that night and got to climb in and out of open water and ice and over all kinds of fun obstacles...rode about 10 miles that night on the icey river and then a pretty cold 8 mile road ride back to where we left our trucks and trailer :-)

tim

[Buzz]

Thanks for the "tape test" idea Tim. I tend to agree that sometimes a true test will show you what exactly is going on....especially when everything intuitive says otherwise.
I think this test would work with any track/tire combination and may even help in tweaking tire diameter and p.s.i......Maybe just measuring them is better, but I could see where the tape test could be done on the fly if you wanted to get your tire circumfrence very close while the tires are mounted and subject to the weight of the vehicle.

Anyhow, the escargo track definitely does effectively lower your gearing and "does" require the center tires to slip to maintain the same axle speed as the front/rear. The design allows for this, but no doubt adding track tuners helps, and I can feel an improvement when running my machine. Here's a short video from today. I should have used colored-sticky pads or something instead of "white tape" that matched the snow. You can see the difference in rotational speed of the tires fairly well though....

Escargo Track Tape Test - YouTube

Thanks for the input

[Buzz]

No doubt a UHMW version would allow for even easier "slipping" of the center tires. I think track tuners are truly the answer to keep as much load off of the chains and to lower operating temps, improve speed a bit and improve fuel economy. I like the idea of being able to take advantage of a much lower-geared track machine with that specific crosser design. Take the tracks off, and your gear ratio goes back up.

[Bazooo guy]

Great video with the tape test.
Did you have the track tuners on it for the video? Im thinking yes.
Id like to see the difference if someone could do the test without tuners.

[Buzz]

yes, tuners were on for the tape test video. This was a good example of seeing the tires rotate at the speed they "should" be rotating inside the track. On the flip side, when "all" the axles are driving, the center tires also rotate at roughly the same speed as the front/rear but are required to "slip" inside the tracks (because the center tires need to turn faster than the tracks are moving). There is no problem doing this, however, this does require additional power. There is no excessive binding without the tuners, but having them ON removes this extra power requirement and allows the machine to operate a little easier, use less throttle, and burn less gas. Almost like dropping your trailer while towing. On my youtube channel, you can go to "mudd-ox escargo 4" @ 5:15 and watch the machine drive by "without" tuners. It's hard to really notice any difference, but it's a proven fact that the center tires had to be "slipping" somewhat.

[Buzz]

Without the tuners, the center axles are forced to "peel out" constantly for lack of a better term. I'm sure that this is probably better than being forced to "slow down" inside a high friction environment. Or to end up where the track tries to turn the tires faster than the chains should, loading up the wrong side of the chain.

[Obsessed]

Without the tuners, the center axles are forced to "peel out" constantly for lack of a better term. I'm sure that this is probably better than being forced to "slow down" inside a high-friction environment.

Cool video Buzz....it's interesting and somthing that I do admire, that by simply putting a track on you can actually re-gear a machine...it's a simply concept, but always seems hard to explain... This is really pretty cool since a lot of tracked machines could use a little extra boost in power and the lower gearing does that...it is much easier than actually modifying the drivetrain everytime you switch back and fourth from tracks. If the loss in speed isn't an issue the extra torque is nice.

It's easy to see why the track tuners work so well on escargo tracks when you watch your video... Another issue I have often considered (but havent taken as much time to test) is how much LESS likely is a machine to loose control and freespin the tires inside the track when its equiped with track tuners??? It's obvious that there's a lot of pushing and shoving and ratcheting going on inside the track surface when all the tires are working against one another...no doubt the center tires are forced to give the most to keep the machine moving, but how much are the front and back tire slipping inside the track at the same time??? Makes me wonder if a track that is being driven by the front and back tire that are in tune with one another and there is no unwanted shoving from the center tires might have less chance of loosing traction inside the track when things get wet and muddy??? I think that the older 8x8 frame designs might have worked better with this track design since the newer generation of 8x8's all have their center axles dropped 1" putting most of the weight of the machine on the tires that cause most of the problems????

Something to think about

Tim

[Buzz]

Interesting. You know I never had any problems prior to putting on the tuners. However, installing them freed up some additional power and now it makes sense why. It now takes noticeably less throttle to operate most of the time. As far as the track slipping, I do feel that you are "less" likely to slip the main driving wheels (front/rear) when all axles are driven. I say this because the centers are forced to help "push" the track in the same direction that the front/rears are attempting to drive it. The small contact patch of the centers can never overwhelm the large contact patch of the front/rears.
I have had a "small" amount of slip inside the tracks (on the front/rear) every now and then since running with the tuners on. However, it has been pretty minimal, and it's never enough to stop driving the track...the track always continues to turn. And, I could always increase the track tension if need be. Having the tuners is -definitely- an improvement for overall machine happiness. Driving without the tuners makes you less likely to slip and stop driving the track, but at the expense of additional load placed on your machine.
With the rear chains instead removed, the front 3 axles spin very easily under climbing conditions, so I know that the center tires are able to slip without too much resistance placed on the inside of the track. All things considering, I plan to leave the tuners on....I don't expect any more slipping of the front/rear driving tires than I already have, and I'm happy!

[Buzz]

What finally made sense to me (seems obvious now) was the difference in overall track length (when stretched flat on the ground) between a track that runs on the outer lip of the tire (argo rubber for instance) and a track with belting on a smaller circumfrence (escargo)....even though the both fit 25" tires for instance.

When both are stretched flat on the ground, the escargo is shorter overall....
To wrap a shorter track around tires, the tires must be smaller in diameter. That's why the front/rear axles perform as if they had smaller tires.
I guess I've beat that dead horse enough!