All-UHMW, All-Escargo Steel, and Escargo Steel/UHMW hybrid track test

[Buzz]

All UHMW vs All Steel Escargo track - YouTube shows the unbelievable traction of an all-steel track vs. all-UHMW



One all UHMW track, One 33% Escargo steel Hybrid/UHMW track - YouTube shows how adding steel cleats helps a non-admiral Avenger 700 climb where the all-UHMW would not...at least until the trees got in the way.

[plott hound]

nice! the steel grousers are way better.to bad they are so expensive.

[akranger72]

Thanks for sharing your results Buzz. I knew the all UHMW tracks would slide just like that. I need to call you and talk about steel crossers.

[rodp]

Why are steel grousers so expensive when the actual grouser will be cheaper? 18" x 1" x 6" of uhmw is quite expensive, 18" of 3mm pressed channel is dirt cheap ?????

It's got me beat ??

[Buzz]

It's labor. They can't be cut on a machine (UHMW) or a chop-saw then pressed like a u-channel-only crosser. Escargo's steel crosser provides excellent traction (large deep single cleat) and much more surface area in the body to "grab" when you do sink. It's a 2-piece design that has to be welded by hand. Strength is built into the design. The large single cleat on edge provides more strength than shorter channel, as well as all of the vehicle's weight on one tall cleat, not two. Floor joist are put on edge instead of flat for a reason. A piece of pressed u-channel would work much better than plastic in this scenario but has very little "body" for other situations. Plastic is more economical to cut but is lighter. My next track I think will be 50% steel, 50% UHMW and shouldn't weight much over 100 lbs per side. In the water it's buoyancy payload on the machine will be half of that. But...it shouldn't have problems going most anywhere. Not to mention, you can always wrap a steel crosser if you have problems with your winch.

[Obsessed]

Hi Buzz...Just watched your two videos...pretty interesting comparison...good example of how the classic style tracks give up a lot of traction over the same material used in a more modern UHMW track design...im confident that the more you test the more you will learn about the ups and downs of all of these designs...lol...the classic style tracks allow a lot of track lug fold over which causes the thick grouser to lean and slip when under a "bite"...one of the reasons that a quality backer plate is necessary with this design to help reduce the "floppy" lug design of this track.....I think that on the flip side of this, the more you test, the more you will experiance all of the unavoidable drawbacks to a sharp steel cleat and you will actually see some of the performance benifits simply from the differance in material...in my opinion until somone develops a "smart" track design that can literally change its shape basied on conditions, all good track designs will excel at some specific tests, but will be a compromise in one way or another...I dont necessarly agree that a heavy steel track with a thin, sharp cleat is a great design for an amphib machine that will have to run in mud and water, but like the new "channel" track design, any steel cleat is a pretty effective track on frozen hill sides and on hard ice when compaired to a rubber or plastic track with no ice cleat... anxious to watch more of your videos!

tim

[Buzz]

I am very interested in the use of plastic in regards to weight savings and neutral bouyancy. I think incorporating its use is definitely beneficial. I do know that a 50% UHMW track is as light as I'll ever need to go. I mean, that's crazy light and skid turns awesome. Not having traction is a deal-breaker for me though. You know, I've never had problems with fold-over because the vehicle presses the cleat straight into the ground (steel). Having some fold-over on a 1" wide UHMW grouser may have allowed a sharper "corner edge" of the grouser to bite, but it was not to be. Instead the flat-cowboy bottom boot did not stand a chance. I can think plenty of places the plastic has enough bite to run with no problem, but many places a plastic grouser (even a narrower 1" crosser that should bite better than 1.5") does not work. I'm sure add-on cleats or traction enhancers would help. I like the material, but right now I'm not sure I want my entire track to be made of it. I could barely walk up the hill (I even fell and slid part way back down multiple times, and I like to think I'm pretty steady on my feet) but the escargo cleat did it's job. I really wish I could have gotten "all" the footage, but the dam* camera was off. I wasn't brave enough to try it again after I made it and the machine didn't fall off the hillside. I was "crushed" when we didn't get it on video Appreciate the discussion.

[rodp]

Could you not put a groove down the centre line of the grouser and insert steel "blades" with two pinch bolts through the grouser when required. Best of both worlds maybe, some bite but little weight?

There's no charge for this ingenious idea but I would expect royalties

[Obsessed]

I wasn't brave enough to try it again after I made it and the machine didn't fall off the hillside. I was "crushed" when we didn't get it on video Appreciate the discussion.

i gotta admit...i love watching these videos, but some of them do kinda scare me...i was wondering what you were going to do if she got away from you..lol...i wasnt quite sure if all the trees were going to help slow down your roll, or just make for a very bumpy ride to the bottom...lol...either way, i couldnt bare to watch it twice...good video Buzz! :-)

tim

[Obsessed]

Could you not put a groove down the centre line of the grouser and insert steel "blades" with two pinch bolts through the grouser when required. Best of both worlds maybe, some bite but little weight?

There's no charge for this ingenious idea but I would expect royalties

great idea rodp...that would work really well especially with a thicker 1.5" grouser and would also allow you to occasionally replace the steel blade after it had been run down a hard surface road for a ways...similar to the thick metal ice cleats used on an argo factory track that get worn down and replaced every so often...this would also allow you to substitute the metal blade for a soft rubber blade if you wanted a quieter and stickier track on rock or paved surfaces...great idea and just for the record you get the credit ...lol :-)

tim

[tattooman]

This is a short video to show how much traction my max has with AdAir argo tracks. I feel my machine is quite capable with this set up, I have run into nothing that makes me feel that i need kleets. this is just my experiance.

[Buzz]

Some (many) conditions don't require concentrated "vehicle weight-driven" traction...directly under the tire, driving the cleat into the ground. But the conditions that have stopped me absolutely do. Unless you want to winch up the hill (always an option), a cleat that can make the most use of this the vehicle weight is needed. It will always bite more than a cleat or traction enhancer added outboard of the tire. Not to say that those devices don't help, because they absolutely do, especially when trying to get a "purchase" to climb up on an obstacle. Usually this means hitting it at an angle, and so these add-ons and winter-kits to help in that regard. An add-on winter kit can often-times make itself "taller" as the belting compresses and "folds-up" if large obstacles are hit off-center. But in certain conditions, you need an agressive cleat directly under your tire. And, they need to be frequent enough to really matter. Not just ice, but summer/fall conditions, and especially steep climbing or even moderate climbing if heavily loaded or towing a trailer. That's the difference. Driving around in summer or warm fall conditions with a light vehicle is easy. That's never stopped me before. But to state the obvious, when you do get stopped, that's it. If you don't have traction, it means winching up or finding an alternate route. Sometimes you cannot find an alternate route unless you're willing to spend a LOT of extra time and trailbraking to do so. I personally feel that the gear-reduction of this track design gives it "that much more" when it really counts. Sometimes in these conditions, you're right on the edge of your machine being able to do the job or not. In the case of an argo, I sure like the notion that instead of a "high" and "low" range, you instead essentially have the ability to run a "mid" and "granny" drive ratio while maintaining the full-floatation of a larger tire. I can't think of a single time that I needed my non-suspension 8x8 to "ever" need speeds greater than 8-10 mph. That's why they make polaris rangers for conditions that allow that kind of driving. But, I know there are different strokes for different folks. Hope that helps.

[Obsessed]

That max sounds like a beast tatooman...looks like it runs great! ...looks like you guys were having a lot of fun over the weekend... thanks for sharing the fun

tim

[mudbug3]

This is a short video to show how much traction my max has with AdAir argo tracks. I feel my machine is quite capable with this set up, I have run into nothing that makes me feel that i need kleets. this is just my experiance.

Thanks so much for posting this video. It's amazing how a set of Adair tracks will turn a very capable machine into an almost unstoppable machine. Each time that you drive your Max II now, it makes you look for places that you'd never think about going into when you were running tires.

[Buzz]

Your machine definitely does a great job with that set up