Tracks, Boggies, suspension...heaven forbid?

[Buzz]

Wide escargo track with a wide winter kit. Increased width, paddle bite = increased performance in keeping your machine up and moving in very deep snow.

[thorn]

Thats a lot better angle on the front and back of the track. As for trying to make them universal for all condition i don't think thats the point because we already have tracks that are very good in mud and for climbing over logs and rough ground. What we are missing is a good track system that can turn your argo or max into small snow cat. We all ready have the machines that all all just about the same in size in configuration. We can run them on wheels or put a track over the wheel that works good in mud. Now we just need something that will turn this into a family small snow machine. Yes they are slow but if you want speed then you would go the sled, but your stuck with not been able to carry a load.
I know in the snow cat forum we talked about it also and they said the same thing and that is there is not a small unit out there that can be used as a family snow cat.There was talk about trying to build one. but that is as far as it got. We all ready have the unit now all we need is a good set of tracks for it .

With the videos you made of where you took your Conquest with Chanel tracks last winter I would say you are probably as close to a snowcat an argo can get. We are starting to get some snow up high here and I am chomping at the bit to get out and try mine. I know that we are always looking for more and more performance. Maybe you want to try a winter kit? My buddy runs a Piston Bully Scout and I am trying to get my Conquest to be able to follow him anywhere, but I don't think that is a reality. I have been pretty happy with my Conquest snow capabilities with the exception of power, and climbing ability.

[Old Tucker]

Thats a lot better angle on the front and back of the track. As for trying to make them universal for all condition i don't think thats the point because we already have tracks that are very good in mud and for climbing over logs and rough ground. What we are missing is a good track system that can turn your argo or max into small snow cat. We all ready have the machines that all all just about the same in size in configuration. We can run them on wheels or put a track over the wheel that works good in mud. Now we just need something that will turn this into a family small snow machine. Yes they are slow but if you want speed then you would go the sled, but your stuck with not been able to carry a load.
I know in the snow cat forum we talked about it also and they said the same thing and that is there is not a small unit out there that can be used as a family snow cat.There was talk about trying to build one. but that is as far as it got. We all ready have the unit now all we need is a good set of tracks for it .

[riotwarrior]

yup...

Now this is CLOSER to what I'm thinking...hmmm..Thanks for that

[hydromike]

Can someone post a picture of the old style MaxII with tracks that had the framework to support them?

yup...

[liflod]

Can someone post a picture of the old style MaxII with tracks that had the framework to support them?

[kghills]

Good thread. I will throw in a couple of things that you outside the box people need to remember. Almost all the 6x6 and 8x8 AATVs that the forum is about rely on the tires to give them their ability to float. Take away the tires, add the weight of a track system and you remove the first A. Doesn't mean it cant be done, Just means you have to keep it in mind.

If you retrofit almost any already made AATV the system will be to the outside of the body, making it wider, or underneath making it higher. One of the great things about our amphibs is their ability to go in adverse wet conditions while the occupants stay relatively clean and dry. This means you sort of sit in a tub with the wheels outside of you or underneath you like a Bushswamper. Wider is usually an issue for a great number of people who need to get it on a trailer or have trails that are narrower than a Jeep. Height becomes an issue for stability or getting under tree limbs. Now you can ignore either of these if you wish but you need to realize that you dramatically limit your potential customer base. You may end up with something really cool but it is sort of a "so what" because no one else really wants one.

I'm not a big believer in thinking out of the box really. I find most of the time people take this exercise they quickly loose sight of the core problem/product/issue that needs to be addressed and a lot of time is wasted. I believe in looking outside the box. You look outside the box for ideas you can incorporate(steal) for your project. If you look around at what's been done by others you can usually quickly come up with a list of what's good and bad for your application then look outside the box for a solution you can easily adapt to make yours better. But I'm basically lazy.

Dedicated track machines are cool. Wheeled AATVs are cool. The marriage of the two, although intriguing, seems a world full of compromise. That's my take.

Keep the ideas coming, Keith.

[Old Tucker]

My Tuckers footprint is almost the same as the argo 8x8 with 18 inch tracks. But three times the weight But it also has two feet of ground clearance.

[Old Tucker]

Uhm...isn't my idea is so outside the box enough for you??? WTF are U saying....Hmmm??? I'm kinda outside the box kinda guy hence all my weirdness and ideas like building a custom BOLT on track setup?????

For peat sakes riot warrior YES YES your idea is just what this forum needs I love the idea now lets get some of the others to hop out of the box.

[trevorakm1]

Hey Riotwarrior, I'm a fan of thinking outside of the box and not picking on you or anyone here. So I appologize if I may have offended you. I am and have always been an armor fan, fascinated with tracks. When I worked construction I could watch the bulldozers and excavators all day. Before my kids were born my house was sort of decorated with tank models I built, much to my wife's dismay. The tracks are one of the biggest draws for me with these aatvs,I have two sets, Argo supertracks and a set of Adair belted. I consider them my deep snow and everyday tracks. My experience is limited to my local snow conditions, so I can only speak for me. Two years ago we had a blizzard here and I super tracked up for the first time. I found no issues with the argo climbing right up and on top of the 3' burms plowed up on the side of the road and staying on top of the snow. I actually fell getting out of the argo twice forgetting that it was sitting on top of the snow as opposed to pushing it. As I stepped off the track to the ground my lead foot would sink into the snow and cause me to loose my balance. I guess this comment is more directed to oldtucker and the lead angle of the track allowing the machine to get on top of the snow. I think the combination of light weight and tire / track diameter at the front of the machine allows for the climbing on top of the snow. That Tucker I would think is heavy considering the foot print of the front and rear track sections possibly causing some difficulty of getting on top of the snow. I haven't tried the Adairs in the same snow depth conditions but think the open space of the track design would limit the floating capability as it is all about surface area.
Now the original issue of suspension, it's the only flaw I can find with these aatvs. we are limited to tire bounce unless a suspension kit is installed at a penalty of width, which may or may not be a factor for some but won't work for me where I ride. Of the two suspension systems I've seen video of, I think whippers is superior to the one someone in Canada designed for Argos, speaking from a 6x6 point of view and not the 8x8. Whipper's system seems to give better travel per axle. On that note the Max with the springer kit and the adairs seems the ideal combo to marry the two ideas of track and suspension. It also seems to give enough play in the suspension while not compromising the track capability that Noel was hinting at. A track itself has a certain diameter to it, which will ultimately limit the amount of travel any obstacle can push on the track without lifting the entire side of the vehicle. I know I'm master of the obvious but I love tracks. I am certainly up for a solution that gives track capability, suspension and affordability for all. I'm also a very big fan of the K.I.S.S. principle, "keep it simple stupid". Beat the Germans and the Japanese in WW2, also has been a virtue of the venerable AK47. The current set up allows us to run tracks and at an instant pull the pins and drive off the tracks and run tires when tracks aren't needed. A system designed by Walter Christie in the early days of tanks and adopted by the Soviets for their early BT series of tanks.
After all this long winded rant if anyone is still listening, I'm leaning on a suspension system for the bench seat itself in my argo much like Keith Hill incorporated into his max4. It's an upgrade I would like to do in the future that seems pretty easy to do.
Riotwarrior keep us posted on the evolution of your idea you may reinvent the wheel/ track and that would be cool.

[riotwarrior]

I think with us talking about it and coming up a few different ideas. Just maybe someone in argo or Adair or who know where will say, It looks like there may be a market for just a good set of bolt on tracks that is far better then what we are playing with now. (A track that wraps around a tire and has a very bad front attack angle.) The front has to be curved up so it will have a tendency of pulling you up onto the snow and not tying to plow its way through it.
I know a track good for the snow may not be good for mud or very rough rocky trails. We are trying to play with a do it all track. Just like a all season tire is not good for ice and snow, Will work but its not the best.

In playing with my tucker snow cat. Its tracks were far to aggressive for the power it had. but I tell you going in a straight line you could not stop it. The front of the track is curved up so it would pull its self up onto the snow. It was Tuckers try at the recreation market. Another small snow cat came out about the same time and it had a rubber track. Same motor same weight. But it danced circles around mine.

Right now there is not a small snow cat out there for the recreation market. One that you could pull behind your every day PU.
Yes, there are the snowmobiles and side by sides, And ATVs with tracks. A snowmobile you cannot put your family in and go enjoy a day outing. ATVs same problem and your open to the elements. Also you cannot carry a heavy load. Side by sides.they are just a glorified ATV.
Now a argo or Mud ox now there you have something to put the family in, top up and away you go. All we need is a good set of snow tracks.
The problem is know one has been thinking out of the box. Its all been trying to come up with a track that will go around your existing tires.
My two pennies. ..OH right we in Canada do not have pennies any more

Uhm...isn't my idea is so outside the box enough for you??? WTF are U saying....Hmmm??? I'm kinda outside the box kinda guy hence all my weirdness and ideas like building a custom BOLT on track setup?????

[Old Tucker]

I think with us talking about it and coming up a few different ideas. Just maybe someone in argo or Adair or who know where will say, It looks like there may be a market for just a good set of bolt on tracks that is far better then what we are playing with now. (A track that wraps around a tire and has a very bad front attack angle.) The front has to be curved up so it will have a tendency of pulling you up onto the snow and not tying to plow its way through it.
I know a track good for the snow may not be good for mud or very rough rocky trails. We are trying to play with a do it all track. Just like a all season tire is not good for ice and snow, Will work but its not the best.

In playing with my tucker snow cat. Its tracks were far to aggressive for the power it had. but I tell you going in a straight line you could not stop it. The front of the track is curved up so it would pull its self up onto the snow. It was Tuckers try at the recreation market. Another small snow cat came out about the same time and it had a rubber track. Same motor same weight. But it danced circles around mine.

Right now there is not a small snow cat out there for the recreation market. One that you could pull behind your every day PU.
Yes, there are the snowmobiles and side by sides, And ATVs with tracks. A snowmobile you cannot put your family in and go enjoy a day outing. ATVs same problem and your open to the elements. Also you cannot carry a heavy load. Side by sides.they are just a glorified ATV.
Now a argo or Mud ox now there you have something to put the family in, top up and away you go. All we need is a good set of snow tracks.
The problem is know one has been thinking out of the box. Its all been trying to come up with a track that will go around your existing tires.
My two pennies. ..OH right we in Canada do not have pennies any more

[trevorakm1]

I think the best bet is to do the springer option with track around it like someone on here has done to a max 2, Jersey bigfoot maybe. Again not trying to start anything with anyone just looking for enlightenment.

[Noel Woods]

Track dynamics also come into play. When the suspension moves up or down or both within the length of the track, the track will tighten and limit the movement of the suspension. On a tank or armored personnel carrier, or piece of construction equipment, the track in usually long enough to be able to allow suspension movement without the track tightening up. On a short wheel base AATV the track with suspension will tighten up quickly and cancel out the benefit of the suspension.

[riotwarrior]

I remember member Brebett posting pics of someone in Canada mounting those Tatou tracks on a 6x6. I didn't quite get it. Why add something like that to a machine that has the full track capability already factored in. Then again I don't really understand the half track idea either. I have never run that half track set up so don't really see the benefit but I'm open to be enlightened. If all axles are powered then why not put them all inside the same track? Not picking on these set ups just don't see the advantage over a full track set up.

K I suck at paint and drawing but I'm not talking half tracks...more like this



Hope that kinda clears up what I'm thinking