22x10-8 Runamuck Tires - Are some are different diameter? Track problems?

[bluebruin]

Has anyone noticed 22x10-8 Goodyear Runamuck's being different diameter? Can this cause track problems?

Here is the long winded back story:

I purchased this argo 8x8 last summer. It had eight 22x10-8 runamucks and a spare.

One tire has a patch (on the outside, not well done). The guy said he had it that way for years with no issue. Of course, on my 3rd use this winter, the tire wasn't holding air.

I order two of these online thinking they were identical to the ones on the argo.
Goodyear Runamuck Front Rear 22 10 8 2 PSI ATV Tire ARM3A8 | eBay

When they came in the mail, my first thought was, hmm those look smaller and more "square". The top of the tires has a more flat shape. I figured it was just because they are not inflated.

Now, I have the tracks off. I noticed that one of the 8 tires on the argo, has more of this same square shape! It also is just a 22x10-8 runamuck. But, I checked the rough diameter of the tire, it is at least 2 inches smaller than the rest of the tires! And, all of the other tires have a much rounder appearance and are about 2" more in diameter. They appear much taller. This tire is more flat across the top.

I did this after adjusting all of the pressures in all 8 tires to be 6 psi. I used a sensitive pressure gauge.

So, this winter, I was having issues with the track on one side. I have powder extensions added by the original dealer. Metal L bar's bolted to about a 6 inch wide rubber piece. The tracks or channels or both are slapping the underside of the plastic tub, especially at high speed. At the time, I thought that the tires might be over inflated and this was causing the track to ride high, and hit underneath.

when I pulled the argo into my garage today, the whole argo was leaning to that side, noticeably. I took a lot of air out of the tires on that side when I was up at my cabin, hoping to eliminate the contact.

Now, I am thinking, the track was not tight enough, due to UNDER inflation causing slop and the tracks to be loose enough to make contact. But, there is one major factor I wasn't aware of. One of the 8 tires is smaller that the others. AND it was installed in the rear of the argo. So, this would reduce the effective circumference the track had to ride around on that side by an inch or more, causing it to be too loose, even with proper tire inflation.

Questions:
1. Do you think this could be the cause of my track problem?
2. Has anybody else noticed these different sized runamuck's that are supposedly identical tires? I have checked all info on sidewalls of all tires, they all read exactly the same!

3. If I end up replacing more of these tires (since they are all pretty old and balding) with these smaller versions, will my tracks fit properly? How will I get them tight? (temporarily I plan to move the smaller tires to the middle positions and use the older larger tires on the ends. but what happens when I have to replace those?)

[Buzz]

what kind of tracks do you have? Sounds like supertracks with angle-iron extensions?

A few things-
You're probably dealing with a clearance problem. Loose tracks can definitely bounce up higher towards the tub, but even a tight track can spring up fairly easily if you're going over bumps (some tracks even ride rough at certain speeds on hardpack).

Your corner tires exclusively determine track tension. You can adjust this up to a point, but sometimes the track just needs to be shortened rather than trying to pump more and more air into the tires, especially if your tub clearance is tight to begin with. Simply making the track tight doesn't necessarily prevent slapping.
I've found that increasing the clearance helps the most. Sometimes this means shortening the track so that less psi is required to maintain a decent track tension. As you know these tires balloon impressively in size with more psi.

Ideally, you have matching tires that are small enough to give you a good "clearance" safety margin. It may mean buying more of the smaller replacements you talked about, and then shortening your track appropriately...if the slapping is becoming a big deal.

I would avoid putting the larger tires on the corners. There are other factors to consider when doing that.

[ARGOJIM]

The Runamok tire can grow quite a bit with higher inflation, if you are running supertacks a segment or half segment can be reduced for tension. Proper track tension in the manual is about a 2-1/2 inch gap before installing final pin.

Noticed you had said 6 psi, that is a lot in a runamok, initial installation should have been 3 psi aired evenly, even with tracks. That section of the newer track installation sheet is often overlooked, this will cause less track clearance with more psi. If your tracks are off try to lay them flat to check for pin wear and then bend them either inward or outward, see if you get a very defined ( shape, if so it may be track pin time.

Once a Runamok grows it will generally not come back to the smaller size, even with lower air pressure.

Many members have more experience than me with the tracks, hopefully more chime in with their experiences.

[bluebruin]

Over the winter, I had the tires set per this document, or one similar that I found last fall.

http://www.argoadventure.com/custom/uploaded/files/625-43%20_%20825-42K%20%20SUPERTRACK%20KIT.pdf

It says:

"For all other models (i.e. Conquest, Response, Vanguard2, and older) inflate the rear tires to 4.0 psi (28 kPa) and all other tires to 3.0 psi."

But previous to that, it said

"Tires should be sized this way:
a. With the tires still off the machine, inflate them all to 5.0 psi.
b. Measure the circumference of each tire using a suitable tape measure, being sure to measure around the center-line of the tire. Photo 1. Write down the measurement on each tire. Photo 2."

So, I don't see that inflating to 6psi would damage them. But maybe I'm wrong.

Anyway, its not that the tires are being inflated to different amounts and hence they are different sizes. They are inflated to the exact same pressure and are different diameter. I just went and took some photos and measurements.

Photo 1: my tracks


Photo 2, 3, & 4: the new runamuck 22x10-8 tires I just bought




Photo 5: On the left side you have the "round" looking runamucks that were on the argo. I have 8 tires and spare. 8 of 9 tires look like this. On the right side you have the smaller "squarer" tire. This was on the argo. I think it looks more like the new ones i bought. I don't have the new ones mounted on rims yet in order to confirm this. But, I was hoping to avoid paying for this if these tires are indeed to small or I need to do all 8 tires at once.


Photo 6: Closeup on the "round" type tires that came on the argo


Photo 7: closeup o the "square" type tire that came on the argo


Measurements at 5psi:
"Round Tire" = 71-5/8" circumference or 22.8" diameter
"square Tire" = 67-5/8" circumference or 21.5" diameter
New Tires = unknown until I can mount them.

I guess I could redo this at 0psi to see how the new tires compare.

[bluebruin]

All tires deflated.
left side- "round" large diameter tire that I have 8 of. (still on rim but deflated)
middle -"square" small diameter tire I have 1 of. (still on rim but deflated)
right - new tire (not on a rim)


Set the tires that are on the argo at 4psi.
Front outside - new tire not on rim
Front back - "square" small tire, totally deflated



Does anybody know why these tires seem so different when they are supposed to be the same size runamuck? 1.5" diameter difference at the the same psi is a lot.

Do you think the very domed/round shape of the tires is just because they are old, worn out, and stretched? I was really hoping to avoid buying 8 tires at once. That's a lot of cash I don't' have right now. Also, I am worried these small tires will not be large enough to make my tracks tight. Is taking a section of the track out difficult?

Thanks

[thorn]

Are the rims all the same? In the one pic of the two mounted tires, the rims seem to be different colors. The one looks like the standard Argo grey 8x7, but the other looks white to me. A wider rim will make the tire small in diameter. Check to see if the size is stamped on the rim. The dry rotted side walls I would think could also make the tire shrink as well.

The dealer in Colorado noted in my manual to run the tires after indexing/sizing at 5 psi front, 7 psi for both middle tires, and 6 psi rear. I ran them like this with great success for 3 seasons before switching over to Channel Tracks. 6-7 psi will not hurt the tires.

[bluebruin]

hi thorn. yeah, those inflation numbers ring a bell. I think whatever document i found last winter recommended something along those lines. I will check the rims. I think they are all the same though. I think some are just dirty and some not. could be wrong.

[bluebruin]

all the rims are identical. For some reason the outside of all the rims has a light color dust/dirt on them. In that photo where they look different colors, I just have the larger tire flipped over compared to the smaller one. All of the rims measure 8" wide. Both the "small" and the "large" tire are on 8" wide rims. None of the rims have anything stamped on them that I can see.

I bought a harbor freight tire changer. took off the tire that has the puncture.

Here it is sitting next to the new tire. Neither tire are on a rim.


Here is the rim


I am planning to mount the new tire on the rim. But I can't figure out how to get it on there. The tire is so deep, and so mall in diameter it puts the tire iron bar at a steep angle and I can't get any leverage to try to get the tire to stretch over the rim. I don't want to damage the new tires. Taking the old one off, it seemed to rip up the bead a bit.

Any suggestions?

[bluebruin]

The Runamok tire can grow quite a bit with higher inflation, if you are running supertacks a segment or half segment can be reduced for tension. Proper track tension in the manual is about a 2-1/2 inch gap before installing final pin.

That section of the newer track installation sheet is often overlooked, this will cause less track clearance with more psi. If your tracks are off try to lay them flat to check for pin wear and then bend them either inward or outward, see if you get a very defined ( shape, if so it may be track pin time.

can you explain what you mean by bend them inward and outward? can't visualize what you are saying here. If I lay the tracks flat on the ground, then what?

thanks!

[bluebruin]

what kind of tracks do you have? Sounds like supertracks with angle-iron extensions?

A few things-
You're probably dealing with a clearance problem. Loose tracks can definitely bounce up higher towards the tub, but even a tight track can spring up fairly easily if you're going over bumps (some tracks even ride rough at certain speeds on hardpack).

Your corner tires exclusively determine track tension. You can adjust this up to a point, but sometimes the track just needs to be shortened rather than trying to pump more and more air into the tires, especially if your tub clearance is tight to begin with. Simply making the track tight doesn't necessarily prevent slapping.
I've found that increasing the clearance helps the most. Sometimes this means shortening the track so that less psi is required to maintain a decent track tension. As you know these tires balloon impressively in size with more psi.

Ideally, you have matching tires that are small enough to give you a good "clearance" safety margin. It may mean buying more of the smaller replacements you talked about, and then shortening your track appropriately...if the slapping is becoming a big deal.

I would avoid putting the larger tires on the corners. There are other factors to consider when doing that.

I think this is good advice. I will try this method. Maybe I'll buy two more tires. Then I'll have 4 new "small" tires for the corners, and plenty of extras to use as spares when the middle four tires wear out, since all 8 of the tires on there look to be on their last leg.

now, how to get these tires onto the rims?

[bluebruin]

this is frustrating. I just spent a solid hour trying to get the rim into the tire, just the first side. every video you watch, the person just lubes up the bead and stuffs the rim into the tire. I don't get it.

The old tires measure the exact same inside of bead to inside of bead. 8". The rims are 9" outer lip to outer lip. 8" under the lip where the bead sits. So, I have to stretch the tire a full 1" to get it over the rim lip. These are thick tires. I just cant' get it to go in. I've tried jumping on it, putting it under the argo and letting the argo weight try to squash the rim into the tire. nothing. Even tried squashing the tire in a large press to make the bead go into an oval shape in the hopes of widening it enough to stuff the rim in. nothing works.

my local ATV shop quoted me $25 per tire. guess I am hauling them down to denver. Walmart does mounting for $5 per tire according to their website, and they sell atv, golf cart, and garden tractor tires.

[bluebruin]

update.

took the tires and rims into walmart. they were able to change them for $5 each, plus some new valve stems. Peerless tires didn't have the right type of machine.

They are now inflated and mounted on the argo. They are still about 1" shorter than other tires. I put the new tires in the middle positions for now. I laid a level across two old tires, with the new one in between, its about 1" taller than the new ones. weird.

Don't really understand why they are so different, all I can figure is that they are so old they stretched out over time.