track tuners

[rapidroy]

Gentlemen I am submitting an idea for your consideration and scrutiny.
I recently purchased 4 track tuners for my conquest along with some channel type tracks.
The combination works extremely good,however I can't resist tinkering and wondering what if.
Are any of you aware of a way to lock up the tuners with the tracks removed? I admit to being a bit lazy but what if... a rear chain fails or a front chain with tracks on.
Imagine pulling the tracks off and removing the center tires then installing an adapter through the grease fitting access holes to the inner flange hub. This adapter could have 5 pins welded to a 1/4" plate and held in place by the tire rim. Of course the same thing could be accomplished with rigid wheel spacers.
I will turn it over to you all and your very good opinions.
Thanks for your consideration... RR

[SHOTGUN]

I had thought about that also but my conclusion was keeping your machine in good mechical condition. What if your belt burnt, or tranny chains broke, or jackshaft broke or any other part that could make you walk fails, you cannot carry every part or make backup senarios for all componets of the machine. I just try to keep every thing ship shape and never go futher than you could walk out (I carry snow shoes in winter), or better yet go with atleast another rider/machine. Hope that makes sense!!

[ARGOJIM]

As Shotgun wrote you can't carry all and numbers is best, however I think I read RD carries bearings, chain, chain breaker and too many tools for many repairs that shouldn't be done in the bush, a spare spacer along with numbers usually and usually returns. However he has I've read stories of coming back to repairs in his posts, haven't I?

As far as your idea, if understood it should work for an emergency repair though it may be best to lock both on that side to alleviate some pressure on the pin. If you are saying remove the track, why not just flip the tuner with the spacer.

A second or third chain failure mutes this post.

[rapidroy]

Thanks gentlemen for your insight and consideration. My worst case scenario has been a broken jackshaft, and since then have been religiously inspecting and maintaining all components that may fail. We do carry tools and parts to a degree that most are never used, and that's good, better to have it and not need it... However, that being said, this is my first foray with tracks and they are awesome but they do seem to put more stress on the drive train. You cant deny that using tracks does narrow the utility of the machine to a degree, while expanding its capabilities in the swamp and thru mud. My goal for the conquest on tracks is to get more use this winter in the snow, perhaps ice fishing or cross country travel to a cabin in the Wrangells. I guess I want my cake and eat it too.
I like to tinker and my mind wanders and wonders, what if... oh well, look a squirrel.... RR

[Buzz]

RR - in the beginning I was skeptical about the tuners and always assumed the center axles helped drive the track. For all practical purposes, this isn't really true. You need both corner axles driving plain and simple. The track speed is determined by the speed the corner axle(s), it doesn't really matter what the center axles are doing. In reality they act like a giant power-suck being forced to overdrive the track a certain amount (on all track styles) prior to the chains properly transferring power to the corner axles so that the track may drive. It happens 100% all the time.
I only state this to help emphasize where I think people should place importance on "potential problems in the field." The most important thing is to be prepared to fix or keep both corner axles driving. 2 out of 4 works Excellent so long as the "2" are the corner axles. On the other hand 3 out of 4 doesn't work very well at all if the 1 non-driving axle is one of the corner axles.

I love the track tuners. The amount of wasted power they eliminate secondary to tire scrubbing (when proper tire indexing is done, and this has to be done for other reasons) is significant. And, for the performance of a wide track, a wheel spacer is going to be used anyway so it's a win win. My plan has always been to fix any problem out in the field that prevents the corner axles from driving. If you don't have what you need, then you can always remove the track, remove the tuners and replace your center wheels in their original position (w/o 2.5" spacing of any kind) and carry on without a track. Arguably, your center tires would then take a slightly different track instead of following directly behind the 2.5" spaced-out corner tires...splitting hairs of course.
But being prepared for a corner axle/bearing/chain repair is simple and easy, and removing the track is pretty easy too as long as you can spin out the tire valve and you have a ratchet strap for putting the track back on. I carry a manual bicycle pump, which is pretty quick when you're talking 5 or 6 p.s.i.
Although it's a lot more work, if you didn't have extra parts, you could even rob a center axle to fix a corner axle and drive in the tracks with a missing center tire (it's been done with your style track). You can always use a damaged axle in the #2 or #3 position even if it has a damaged or missing hub. You just need something to fill the hole in the outer-bearing race (so you don't sink) and to provide splines and sprockets inside the machine. Driving with flat tires has also been done because everyone knows tires don't always hold air for various reasons.
By and large, the new-style track tuners seem to be very very good. I'm not aware of any of them breaking the spindle from the backer plate. I've only heard of one bending a little essentiallly from a very hard hit that may have cracked the outer bearing flange at the same time, but it didn't prevent the machine from driving.
One of my machines is a conquest (standard gears and even axles/bearings/tires at the moment). It works great and is a crawler with the same set up you have. It is slower and has a wider wheelbase that you have to get used to after driving w/o tracks. But, some conditions are very sticky, and you'll learn quickly how to make your machine turn w/o flogging the throttle and feeling like you're straining. The machine and elevated belt track will do it no problem, but I prefer to use lower throttle and either feathered-brake sweeping turns (especially in high range) or very frequent on/off braking where as soon as the machine rolls forward a smidge, I brake, then repeat over and over again. You can make a pretty tight turn even in sticky conditions w/o flogging the machine. Just gotta let the clutches do their thing and finesse the brakes.
And of course, a broken chain depending on where it is can prevent multiple axles from driving even when you're not using tracks. So can't prevent everything. Best to carry a few things in your repair box as you know.
Shoot, I've even considered cutting the track in field (if necessary)to run it as a half-track to get around a broken axle or hub for instance. There's plenty of clearance for that style grouser, and it's easy to overlap the track belts for a new hinge or even back to their original full-length. Oh, the possibilities are endless but usually overkill in the end. Cross that bridge if you ever get there I guess.
Remember though that it is mandatory the all the corner axles remain driven for the track to drive reliably under any kind of load towing or climbing. For instance, you can run tracks on flat ground okay if one of the corner axles isn't driving, but start working the machine hard at all, and the tires will slip. It doesn't matter if you have 3 out of 4 driving. You gotta have the corners driving to be unstoppable.
One more thing I forgot- you could always carry an extra wheel spacer or 2 in the event a track tuner failed (unlikely with new style). You can fairly easily remove center wheels without removing the track. Just drive the front (or rear) tire up onto an obstacle so that there is daylight under axle #2 or #3. The track will sag and can easily be manipulated to get the tire out. Replace a spacer or tuner and you're good to go. Flatten the corner tires if necessary to allow the track to be more easily manipulated. No need to remove the track if you're only dealing with center tires.
I really hope that helps!

[rapidroy]

Thanks Buzz, you are spot on all points and options. The tracks work great, they are very aggressive, which is why I want to consider using the machine without them for dry trail operations. I will likely opt for rigid spacers to operate without the tracks, but with tracks on the track tuners are by far the way to go and thanks to the guys at Adair for their product.
A machinist friend of mine is tinkering with the idea of a selectable locking hub type track tuner, he has a 2014 avenger with rubber argo tracks and he likes to tinker and fabricate things. But with more moving parts come more complications also...
Good luck to all and hope you all had or have, a successful hunting season this year. RR

[Finn]

Seems like you are on the right track with locking hubs. I had an older snowblower, approximately 1950's or 1960's Airens or Simplicity that had a 1/4 turn locking hub that engaged/disengaged both wheels. I think the axle shaft was approximately 3/4" . My grandfather had approximately a 1984 Kawasaki 250 prairie three wheeler that had a manual 1/4 turn locking hub in the rear axle just like a 4x4 truck. Maybe you could find something like this to modify and save time/money. Good luck

[avenger8x8]

Where is the cheapest place to purchase 4 track tuners 2.5"?

[rapidroy]

Where is the cheapest place to purchase 4 track tuners 2.5"?

Mine came from Adair, I believe they developed them. You need to call for a quote...