8 ply turf tires on 12 inch rims

[trapperjack]

hi anybody using the 8 ply turf tires on the 12 inch rims when running tracks? I don't know about the rest of you guys running tracks but the 25x12x9 argo tires have bad side walls and don't hold up to long time running with tracks . I got my axle bearing problems fix with my new ford 9 inch axle bearing conversion,and now if I can get these tires to hold up. that would be great. any feed back would be awesome. thanks.

[jpswift1]

I have 4 ply 18x9.5-8 turf tires on my Attex 'Lil Truck Tomahawk when I run my plastic Tru-Trax (same as standard Argo tracks) and they work great and I have never had any issues unless the tire pressure is too low and I'm trying to go up a 40 degree incline or something crazy like that......then the tires will spin a little in the tracks, but no other issues at all. I drive that thing through 3 feet of powder and it never misses a beat.

[red-bird-dog]

What tracks are you running? and with what track guides? steel, plastic or UHMW? this will determine the abrasion on the tire side wall.

8 ply tires will get you a high load rating, with a bit more side wall stiffness as a good side effect, down side 8 plys are harder to work with and wont expand alot with tracks.

Argo has a turf tire that was made for tracks ( in the last 2 years ) it is a 4 ply but with thickened side wall. This was developed for industrial steel guides. It works really great with the UHMW track guides. These allow you to add a bit more psi and expand out the tires to snug up the track fit a bit more.

[Buzz]

some tracks and track guides can be harder on sidewalls than others. Some tire guide "tips" can get scratched, gouged, broken, or generally roughed-up. Starts to become a big deal as this part of the guide frequently comes into contact with the sidewall. Certain terrain can also cause these moveable tire guide tips to tilt, twist, fold over, or even be leveraged in toward the sidewall which can cause a host of other problems. I use elevated belt tracks for a number of reasons, the elimination of the tire-guide "tip" side effects being a major one. Instead, the grouser is the cleat as well as the guide, and the top of the guide is affixed to the belting so it cannot move or contact the tire sidewall in any undesirable way.
Unfortunately our tires are spendy, and the last thing you want to do is trash your sidewalls. The argo swimmer tire has a decent sidewall (4-ply I believe) and a fair bit of tread-bar wrap in the area that tire guides touch. Some guys have better luck than others, and I think there are frequently other factors at play.

[jpswift1]

I have 4 ply 18x9.5-8 turf tires on my Attex 'Lil Truck Tomahawk when I run my plastic Tru-Trax (same as standard Argo tracks).

I mentioned in my previous post that I am running plastic Tru-Trax (same thing as standard Argo tracks).

[trapperjack]

I have 2010 hdi with track tunners an 20 inch wide tracks and steel guides. I have spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars on tires since 2010 (and outside axle bearings) I spend a lot of time and miles on tracks here in upper Michigan. I need the flat solid bottom tracks because I trap beaver and spend a lot of time around beaver ponds and the tracks prevent punctures to the tires from the beaver chews. so a different track is not an option otherwise escargo tracks would be on. I spent a lot of time developing my outer wheel bearing conversion to accept ford pressed on rear wheel bearings and they work excellent. now its time to solve the tire side wall problems that I have had since 2010. argo offers a turf tire its 6 or 8 ply. the tire they used early on was the kenda brand k500. now they use Carlisle turf tire. and my machine is used really hard. went for ride today. and after ride inspection another tire side wall coming apart. at 200 hundred dollars apiece time for a change.

[ARGOJIM]

Who's tracks are you running? What is your ground cover like? Is it most always the 4 center tires and the 2nd axle set that see's the most wear?

[Buzz]

Sorry to hear about your troubles. I have heard more tire wear-n-tear/damage complaints than you can imagine up here. I usually see people after they are sick of it all. Have you run any of the grouser style tracks yet in your swamp conditions? Now don't take this the wrong way, but those conditions are taylor-made for a different style track than you currently have. How much more money do you want to spend on tires? (I know the answer). My advice (after trying everything) would be to at least consider other options before you plunk down some serious $$ on a new set of tires and likely rims too in hopes of helping the problem. Several different folks can make these tracks. There's always the chance of puncturing a tire, and it can even happen with a closed-face rubber track too (or through the closed face rubber track) no doubt about it. The key is whether or not flat tires or a loose track will prevent you from carrying on without an issue. These things don't stop an elevated-belt tracked machine from continuing on. It can still drive and keep the tracks on. This kind of flat I would consider rare and bad luck, but one thing is for certain- you will experience wear/tear even from normal driving, and tire guide "tips" on some track styles can worsen the situation. That part you can't avoid unless you eliminate the tire guide tips. I do know that tires inside rubber tracks (especially smooth tread tires) are very prone to slipping (which fails to drive the tracks) in some swampy, wet, and muddy conditions. Most guys just bump up the air pressure to tighten the track which doesn't completely help and isn't the best option. If you travel light, it might be alright. Off my soapbox

[trapperjack]

hi buzz , keep in mind here in upper Michigan we have lots of snow about 300 hundred inches a year average. and most of my travels on tracks is on the snow. I trap in the winter months. I don't think the track guide tips are the problem to the tire failure think the guide creates a lot of friction and heat build up on side walls cause the tire to separate, and the side wall bulges and lumps up . I would love to run escargot type track but I do not like there winter version with the add on side extensions. makes the machine to wide for the tight places I drive. back to tires I think the 6 or 8 ply turf tires might hold up better in these conditions. both kenda and carlilse make these tires. there is more rubber contact on the ground or track surface with the turf tires then the argo type tire. witch In theory should mean more traction on the rubber belt(track) and less tire slip. I run track tuners and love them I do get some tire slip in the track but its a lot better then all the chain windup and tensioner problems when not using them. thanks a lot for your input

[ARGOJIM]

I'm going to throw my thoughts as to what happens with the rubber track tire wear on a post conquest 8x8 as I have minimal seat time in a rubber tracked unit. First thing to consider is the tire arrangement, with the center two tires sitting 1" lower in the track, the track will naturally flap up and down on a straight path as throttle is raised and lowered changing track tensions (rubbing). Next during each turn the track on the center 2 tires will twist some causing rubbing, a right turn will cause the right center to push the track from the inside and the left side will push the track from the outside and vice versa, now combine that with the slight twist of both the top and bottom and there is quite a bit of sidewall friction. In your case with the tuners there would be no added drive to help reduce the sidewall friction, not that the lack of tuners would solve that.
Next is just a rubber track fault with some brands worse than others, unlevel ground, with the guides being on the outsides of the track only they are able to conform to the ground, great!, except for sidewall friction which will occur with any inward flex of the track. A shorter guide like the max tracks use are probably beat for sidewall wear,however they have a greater tendency to ride further up the tire and chance contact with the lower body causing cuts or rubs to that. A full length stiffener would greatly help the sidewall/guide contact they would increase the weight and could worsen the contact should one or more become bent.
All of your sidewall contact is magnified with the 20 inch tracks compared to a 15 inch track due to the unsupported portion on the track past the guides allowing Inward force on the guides.



Recently I purchased an early set of tracks (2007) with a set of rawhide 3's, looking at the tracks and the ensuing parts machine my guess is has between 250 & 500 hours on it, the tires show next to no sidewall wear though the plastic track guides do. This may be an avenue for you with the reintroduction of the 3' s.

If this makes sense to any of you rubber track guys chime in, if you think i'm way off chime in louder.

[tbone9]

Jim, I'm picking up what you're putting down in regards to the full length stiffener. Although I don't have an Argo I do have rubber tracks on my Max. The raw hides have held up real we'll to the aluminum guides. Last year I added UHMW and stainless cleats and it made the track more ridged not allowing the guides to tip in or out. Also less chance of running out of the tracks if a tire loses some air because the guides can't tip outward. However Trapperjack makes a good point with heat build up as well. I've already seen ice buildup on the inside of the aluminum guides pushing against the tires. The guides get warm and snow and ice tend to build up as the warm cleats hit the cold snow and ice. Just my two cents. I'm sure my rig doesn't see the extreme conditions as Trapperjack up in the snow belt either.