End all thread for the very tired topic....TRACKS pros and cons

[cdover73]

I know this topic has been beaten more than any , but I for one am sick of trying to put together multiple posts and long hours of searching to get the information I need in one spot, and still not have the answer I was looking for. So I figured if everyone is interested and feels there is a benefit to do it, we might as well try to get it all in here at once.
Not yet ready to get into the different hp, trans options, 6 or 8 wheel, etc debate just yet. Lets knock out the up front questions that any of you that have had experience with tracks went through and what made you either do it or stay away from them. Also, no brand/type comparison just yet...just the common "should I buy tracks" questions and pros and cons to answer them. Once we have that we can move into those other areas and do the comparisons, then finish with final results and real world feedback/regrets. If we go that route this should be the final say to the very, verrry, tired topic of 'tracks'! (slight disclaimer...if this already exists then I apologize, but I have been looking for it and have not found anything close to an 'ends all' post, situation specific, but not all inclusive)

Let's get started....

Starting questions:
What are the pros and cons of installing tracks on any machine?

[plott hound]

for me its a no brainer,if I want to use my argo in the winter I need tracks.without them my machine is useless in anymore then 12" of snow.
do I need tracks in the other 3 seasons?no I don't for the places I need to go the tires are fine.so far ive only experienced "pros" and no "cons".
do you need tracks?well that's up to you not me.lol

[Delduck]

We use are tracks to obtain (LPG) low ground pressure to stay on top of what we're going over, so for us it's not about traction as much as staying on top. Some of the other tracks out ther are great on the traction end but not as good on the ground pressure end. We are only 1 year into working a max4 so my opinion isn't based on the knowledge that others on this forum certainly have, but we have a lot of work time on our machine in the marsh reeds. Hope this helps and good luck my freind. Tires do not work for us and we have tried a bunch of different sizes including turf tires.

[Buzz]

some people need tracks for where they ride
many people don't need tracks at all for where they ride
some people have good luck with certain tracks depending on the conditions they ride ride
some people do not have good luck with the same tracks depending on where they ride because we all ride in different conditions
some people have a lot of track experience with many track styles
some people have a lot of track experience with one track style
Only you know where you live - ask people where you live what works for them. Consider the cost vs benefit of tracks, then decide if you must have them.
Sometimes you have to be willing to do a little leg work to learn on your own
When you come here to ask a question like that you're going to get different opinions from different people who all simply agree to disagree

[john swenson]

that pretty much seems to cover it buzz. for myself i have always been attracted to any machine with tracks...dozers, tanks ,tracked backhoes, etc. i always thought they looked cool crawling thru mud and snow. plus as a kid i was'nt satisfied riding my bike, go kart, minibike on pavement. always had to find mud. i don't have to have them, but i sure have fun with them in mud and snow.... especially at busco they feel cool ! johnboy va.

[cdover73]

Buzz - that is actually probably the best synopsis I have seen to sum it up! A lot of good points in there. And I totally agree that there are many different scenarios and options to consider. But to be clear, I didn't post the topic solely for myself. I saw a lot of different posts that didn't deal with the overall pros and cons. Just shots in the dark that answered specific questions. I was actually aiming to build a thread for everybody to use that gets all our points/comments in one place so the next would-be track buyer that comes through here would have a tool to use in making a smarter decision. That's why I called it the end all. In my mind it would be expansive for sure, but it would also contain all the caveats of running tracks so they can at least browse through and sort their own answers without having to try and search blindly and hope they find the one thread they are looking for to answer their question.

One purpose of this site is to provide answers to those asking, that's all I was hoping to accomplish. For us to a have a 'go-to' place where all the answers are. That will not happen unless everyone understands the goal and is in favor of putting it together, so we can probably delete this thread and just never have that tool because I starting to realize, as you pointed out, there being too many that don't get the big final picture of how this would be put together. It had good intentions....

As far as being willing to do your own leg work...I have always researched my purchases thoroughly and took all considerations into play before I spent my money. But in this particular case, I am in south Louisiana. There isn't a lot of people around here that have even ever seen one of these machines, much less rode in one, and even more less have owned one. Drill that down to find somebody who has experience with tracks on top of that in my area and in my riding conditions and you can see there is nobody for me to go to ask about their experience. We don't live close to Canada where these are made and sold more often. We don't have neighbors that own one to consult with. That is why I come to this site. You ARE my neighbors... This IS my 'leg work'...

Thanks,

[North Country Tough]

To me the only way to get to the point that you are looking for would be a unbiased side by side comparison of all available track systems in every conceivable condition these vehicles encounter as well as on every different machine out there all machines do not act exactly the same even given the same tracks in the same condition such things as transmission design weight distribution 6 or eight wheel front mount engine rear mount engine mid mount engine- loaded to the hilt or carrying two passengers only each have their own idiosyncrasy,s so to have a rule of thumb that you can make use out of is practically impossible.People here on this site range across North America/South America/UK/Europe/Russia and beyond each with their own weather climate conditions something that works killer in the heavy southern swamps and bogs on a certain given machine dropped into 5FT plus of powder snow struggles and vice versa having been around these machines since the mid sixty,s and being on tracks(winter use) since the early eighty,s with all that I have experienced and gleaned off this site Iam still unsure of my next move away from what I currently use as Buzz said legwork unfortunately the legwork for me will involve a great expenditure for a different design that in the end for my circumstances and conditions may or may not work as well and or better or worse then what I have now and come with less or more driveline issues time will tell I wish there was one track that addressed everything but I think not possible everything in life has some trade off some acceptable some not.Cheers NCT

[SHOTGUN]

I think the topic is just too vague to have set answers, just as others have posted too many variables. Here is a good place to start, ask yourself these questions: #1 Will my machine go where I want it to now? Why buy tracks if you are happy with your machine's performance, if not then something more is needed. #2 What is the main attribute that you need or terrain to overcome. #3 What is your Budget. #4 What products will fit the machine. Next instead of blindly reading reviews start to think analytically about the various tracks, their design and intended purpose. This goes a long way in deciphering the reviews and videos that you will encounter. For example a closed track will have more initial flotation than a open grouser track, metal has more grip on ice than UHMW plastic, raised belt tracks have increased reduction and reduced top speed, ect. Some tracks are more adaptable with modifications to various conditions. There is a ton of info on this site and for me I was more than happy to read and watch through as much as I could before I spend a good chunk of money. Just imagine 20 years ago all we had was the local dealers and friends to find information and reviews of products.

[ARGOJIM]

I know this topic has been beaten more than any , but I for one am sick of trying to put together multiple posts and long hours of searching to get the information I need in one spot, and still not have the answer I was looking for. So I figured if everyone is interested and feels there is a benefit to do it, we might as well try to get it all in here at once.
Not yet ready to get into the different hp, trans options, 6 or 8 wheel, etc debate just yet. Lets knock out the up front questions that any of you that have had experience with tracks went through and what made you either do it or stay away from them. Also, no brand/type comparison just yet...just the common "should I buy tracks" questions and pros and cons to answer them. Once we have that we can move into those other areas and do the comparisons, then finish with final results and real world feedback/regrets. If we go that route this should be the final say to the very, verrry, tired topic of 'tracks'! (slight disclaimer...if this already exists then I apologize, but I have been looking for it and have not found anything close to an 'ends all' post, situation specific, but not all inclusive)

Let's get started....

Starting questions:
What are the pros and cons of installing tracks on any machine?

Begins all post hopefully.

To get back where you wanted to start;

Pros

Increased traction, in some cases
Increased floatation
Less ground pressure
Ability to get further through muck, mire, snow, tundra, bog, marsh, tidal land etc.
Wider wheel track, in most cases
Slightly lower center of gravity, in most cases as wheel track is wider and heavier than just tires

Cons

Cost of tracks ( SHOTGUN)
Decreased traction, in some cases
Ability to go further through muck, mire, snow, tundra, bog, marsh, tidal land etc. allowing you to be stuck further into unstable ground possibly without winch points
Increased driveline stress on axles, chains, sprockets, bearings, frames, etc requiring some type of "stress reliever" and or spacer, in most cases
Wider wheel track, in most cases


I would like anyone with anymore pros or cons similar to what is written here to add to this list as this is just a quick response, I believe this is some of what cdlover73 is looking to start off with in this post.
Later in the post, or if someone would like to start either a condition pro or condition con post please list that at the top of your reply so that appropriate responses could be pasted to each condition. These could then be moved to the top of this thread for quick access before scrolling though the individual success or failure posts.

[SHOTGUN]

A major con can be the additional cost for tracks, they get pretty pricey.

[cdover73]

Jim, I appreciate the effort, but I'm actually in agreement with the other's posts. I would love to help put something like this together, but I am realizing what they are saying and that there may be too many variables to do it in one place. Or maybe I started out with the wrong concept or format?? Regardless, we may need to rethink the approach. It would be super nice to start creating stickys to address topics like this in all areas. I'm not sure if a poll would be better (who would come up with all the variables to pick from??) But if you (or anybody) can think of a better way to get all the info into one place without a lot of confusion then I'm all for it.

Everyone else - I really do understand and greatly appreciate your responses. I can't argue any of your points because I agree with all of them. I read back through and realized my reply to Buzz may have sounded a little defensive but it really wasn't meant to be. I hope nobody took it that way, especially Buzz. I was just trying to explain that this wasn't just another "answer my question" thread and that I recognize a need to try to start putting some good information in one place. Especially when local resources are as hard to come by as mine. Hopefully everyone realizes that now too. I already answered the question that I for one will not be buying tracks because I haven't found anything I can't go through now and don't want any extra unnecessary strain on my drivetrain. If had access to something like I was trying to do here then my research would have been more well-defined and I could have leveraged it to make a quicker and more decisive decision, even though that is my responsibility to make that choice and not rely solely on what others say, it would have been a wonderful tool to use. That would have been no different than all the searching and endless reading to come to the same conclusion. I'm not trying to be lazy about it, just trying to be productive with something new everyone could benefit from, that's all.

We can either delete this thread and start over or at least change the title so people don't click on it and be misled. But I look forward to seeing if takes off in the right format and creates something that everyone can benefit from!

Thanks all!

[philipatmaxfour]

I hope an "End all thread' on this subject is not possible due to inventiveness and technology. I remember when Super tracks were the best that you could get for an Argo. Like Plott Hound said, if you want to travel in an Argo in Ontario in the winter, you need tracks and despite the shortcomings rubber tracks are a huge improvement. Some of us want to believe that Argo will make a track that swims, Adair will make a track that does not need to make our machines so wide on the trail,in the snow. etc. etc. There has got to be more improvements coming .

[beagle man]

Cdover73, I think every one on the forum appreciates your spirit and can relate to your quagmire regarding tracks and pretty much any modifications we attempt to employ. I watched videos of amphibious vehicles for two years just to get the nerve to spend a large chunk on toy. Then it was tracks, now I have come full circle and spent a stupid amount on a new rig and as you can see from a recent thread, I'm in the hunt for tracks again. Welcome to the club and the forum, lots of great people out there,that said this is a madness we all share. Best of luck on your search.

[SHOTGUN]

I think a better thread would be for anyone who has tracks or tried various styles to list a couple of the best and worst features they have DIRECTLY experienced and nothing more. Then maybe how they normally use the machine. This would give people researching a good start on the key advantages and disadvantages while eliminating a lot of speculative opinions. Pricing is pretty easy to compare for anyone serious to find at the time of purchase. By speculative I mean everyone's unique needs, driving style and environment.

[JohnF]

1997 Argo Conquest supertracks
I hunt in the Colorado Rockies, hunt in the sandhills of NE, ice fish anywhere I can
They work well in most any kind of snow but if I bust through a crust layer with mealy snow underneath I will probably be stuck.
They slide on ice. Can be enough that the winds of SD can push it around a bit while parked. A guy with cleats on his boots can push it.
They work well in sand and rocky/hard pack surfaces that are rough.
They will slide on a solid smooth rock surface. Imagine the slick rock area of Utah.
They work well in vegetation that is not big - like sage flats/yucca fields/willows. I tried and pushed over an aspen tree once to see if it could. (Not sure what the riding mates thought of that... it's a bit destructive and not my normal off road habit)
I can get stuck trying to go over a big log as the track will not grip a log unless I pick a spot with jagged broken branched to grab.
I have metal ramps to the trailer and crawling up can get scary as the machine will slide.

I added the Argo ice cleats. The changes are:
Pretty much the places where I said it will slide have been fixed. Logs can still be a problem and the ramps aren't wide enough to catch the cleats but ice is no longer an issue. I suspect a big smooth rock might still be an issue.
I fixed the ramp issue by making a couple boards that fit the ramp and have bolts sticking up for the tracks to grab.

They are heavy and take up a lot of space when not on the machine.

I have some BKT knobby tires that I use and like when there is no snow to about 8-10 inches. After that I use the tracks.