Track Tuners ?

[BREEZE]

I also would like a pic of these track tuners and how do they freewheel the center wheel

[Rock Doctor]

I also would like a pic of these track tuners and how do they freewheel the center wheel

RD

[Obsessed]

Well, an update. I ordered a set of track tuners about a month ago, they arrived a few weeks ago and I finally got an opportunity to put them on. My first impression is that I liked them, easy to grease, quality looks good. The only issue on the install was that the wheel bolts on the track tunes are larger than the wheel bolts on the argo axle shafts, (3/4 for argo, 13/16 for track tuners if memory serves me right) This made the bolt on the tuners the exactly the same size as the bolt pattern wheel hole and if the wheel holes are squished a bit from cranking the tires tight you have to ream the holes out to get the wheels on. No big deal though.

I tried them out yesterday. I would run the machine up for a few minutes and then check the chains, etc. All the windup issues that I seemed to be plagued with, with my rubber tracks, seemed to be gone. (And I should say that I do know how to set the tracks up, but I still felt like there was too much chain 'back pressure' for my liking) I then would check the chain tighteners to see if they had ratcheted up. None of them had moved. So, just to check, I loosed off my tensioners right off, ran the argo, the chain tensioners did not ratchet up past the point of where they were with tires only.

Yesterday I took the machine for a good workout. It turns easier, climbs better, all the funny creaking, straining sounds that I disliked with tracks on seem to be gone. There appears to be much less pressure on the drive system with these on.

All in all, so far, I am very very happy with the difference. I will take some video and post it.

Derek

DerekF.....if you want to completely neutralize chain load...

Assuming that the tires are still installed in the factory location based on their size (smallest in front and second smallest in the rear) and also assuming that those two smallest tires are within an inch or so of one another...then you can adjust the remaining chain tension and completely eliminate it by increasing the front tire psi by 1psi and decrease the rear tire by 1psi...if you continue this you will completely eliminate the chain windup.....but.....if you go to far you will start to reverse the load on the chains and start to put the stress on the bottom side of all chain loops that are behind the transmission and directly on the chain tensioners (just what the Argo engineers are trying to eliminate by staggering the tire sizes as they have)...

Second thing to understand is that with a slight amount of tension on the top of the rear drive chains (away from the chain tensioners) you are preloading the drive system (a good thing) so that if and when slight slippage occurs both front and rear tire are synchronized and thus eliminating any chance of "shocking" the drive system...

Final point of concern is rear tire pressure...better than 90% of the time, tracks derail under three specific circumstances
1. A side load on the track while skidding, sliding, or turning
2. The rear rear tire must be rotating at least slightly
3. The rear tire has to give and the track is pealed off the bottom of the rear tire

With this in mind sharp turns, with a firmer rear tire and proper track tension will pretty much eliminate any possibility of throwing a track

Take care and let me know if any of this doesnt make sense

Tim

[DerekF]

Tim,

So far it looks like there is no pressure on the bottom side of the chain. So if memory serves me correct, Argo specs call for 7psi on the two inner tires, and 5 psi on the end wheels? And you are saying to run 6psi on all tires?

Derek

[Rock Doctor]

I'm running 4.5 psi in my tires (5 psi in the ones that leak, lol)

RD

[North Country Tough]

Hey guys great info,looks promising for the track tuners,got a question for both you fellas before I put out the money for them I strictly run tracks in the winter will I still need these units.N.C.T

[Obsessed]

Tim,

So far it looks like there is no pressure on the bottom side of the chain. So if memory serves me correct, Argo specs call for 7psi on the two inner tires, and 5 psi on the end wheels? And you are saying to run 6psi on all tires?

Derek

Hi Derek... Good observation....the factory specifies a starting point of 5psi in the front, 7psi in both middle, and 6psi in the rear.... As I understand it, they are recommending a psi pattern that helps accentuate the tire sizing pattern so as not to eliminate chain windup, but minimize its damage on drive line components....this pattern keeps the stress away from the self adjusting chain tensioners....and the psi recommendations are a good starting point and depending on track tension or track sag, they should all be adjusted up or down in 1 psi increments as an entire side group so as not to change the balance of stress on that side of the driveline...

With "Track Tuners" you are eliminating the stress that the larger center tires cause on the chains by allowing them to relax and just freewheel....therefore, tire pressure of the middle tire(s) is irrelevant when referring to chain windup issue...center tire pressure(s) are now just used to adjust ride and performance...less pressure in the center tire(s) will give a softer ride and less stress on the more fragile center axles....more pressure in the center tire(s) will firm the ride, lift the machine from the center putting more weight and stress on center axles, but dramatically decrease the footprint of the rubber track and make skid turning on hard surfaces much easier...so....to sum it up...less center tire pressure=softer ride....more center tire pressure=easier turning...

So your question...what pressure to run the tires at?...

Do what you want with the center tire pressure(s)....run similar tire pressures in the front and back so as to have only about an inch or two of track sag under the center tires, and increase the ratio of pressure in the front tire until you are happy with a minimal amount of tension on the top of the rear chains, just don't over do it...you now have the easy ability to "tune" the tracks however you prefer :-)

Let me know if I have made any of this hard to understand...

Tim

[DerekF]

I thought I would post an update on my experience with using the track tuners.

I used them for a month or so this winter, mostly on hard packed snow and ice. I haven't set them up quite as precise as Tim mentions in the post above but they seem to be working really well. I would use the Argo to go check the nets, then when I got home I would check for binding or excessive pressure on the chain guides. No problems to report. This is actually quite amazing for me as I have had nothing but problems with the rubber tracks on the very hard packed, wind drifted snow. This snow almost seems to have the same grip as pavement at times. This has made steering tough and was hard on the chain guides as they continually seemed to be overtightened, even when the tracks were set up to factory specs. The track tuners have seemed to solve all of this.

Now that the snow is gone, I took the machine out with tracks to my "test area". Its a swampy area with a small, slow moving creek with "loon poop" bottom. But the swamp is surrounded by Canadian Shield rock and some hard packed dirt areas. The quads go out there in the spring when the ground is still frozen but there is a top layer of mud that they can play in. This is bad because It "looks" like there are well traveled trails you can follow but in a quad right now, you would not get far! But for an Argo, it has always been a good testing place as I can see how the machine performs in different types of terrain at the same time. The free wheeling center wheels did not seem to spin in the tracks when rock crawling or turning on hard pack. The only issue I had was that I did find turning the machine in general on the hard pack dirt still tough, but that has nothing to do with the track tuners. Re-reading Tim's post above reminded my that I probably had my center tire pressures too low (4.5psi).

On another note, it was the first time in years that I have ran the track in the summer. I have a small loop in my test area that goes right through the small creek and back. Absolutely no bottom, the only thing propelling you is the traction from the weeds. I tried to do last year with my vampire tires. I made it about 10 ft off the trail into the creek and got stuck. I had to have a rhino pull me out. (He stayed on the road). This year I went through the same place a number of times and I almost thought that the conditions must have changed because it was so effortless. I have a short video I will post later.

All in all, track tuners are a great product. For half of the cost of chains for an argo, you can fix all the rubber track problems..................... Two thumbs up

Derek

[Rock Doctor]

After a good solid weekend running the Tuners hard, I'm also impressed with there performance. Even though i worked the tracks hard enough to see some stretch ( normal for new tracks) to the point where I could walk out of a track, I still never slipped a tire inside the tracks. Driving the tracks with only the front and rear tires was not an issue.

RD

[Obsessed]

Hey guys great info,looks promising for the track tuners,got a question for both you fellas before I put out the money for them I strictly run tracks in the winter will I still need these units.N.C.T

Hi NCT...sorry I missed your question until now....the answer is that "track tuners" are probably more important in the winter time because of the fact that snow and ice is a very good cleaning material for both the tires and the tracks...when the rubber to rubber contact is very clean and sticky you have the greatest amount of drive line binding and chain windup...track tuners easily eliminate about 90-100% of this binding making the machine labor less and considerably quieter and lower maintaince...

Summer mud and grit help ease the pain of rubber tracks because it reduces the adhesion of the two rubber surfaces...the only exception is when coming out of clean water onto hard surface on a warm day....when the rubber dries off the clean, dry, warm surfaces probably produce an exceptionally high amount of adhesion and stress on all drive line components

Hope this makes sense and sorry again for not responding to you sooner

tim

[North Country Tough]

Hi NCT...sorry I missed your question until now....the answer is that "track tuners" are probably more important in the winter time because of the fact that snow and ice is a very good cleaning material for both the tires and the tracks...when the rubber to rubber contact is very clean and sticky you have the greatest amount of drive line binding and chain windup...track tuners easily eliminate about 90-100% of this binding making the machine labor less and considerably quieter and lower maintaince...

Summer mud and grit help ease the pain of rubber tracks because it reduces the adhesion of the two rubber surfaces...the only exception is when coming out of clean water onto hard surface on a warm day....when the rubber dries off the clean, dry, warm surfaces probably produce an exceptionally high amount of adhesion and stress on all drive line components

Hope this makes sense and sorry again for not responding to you sooner

tim

No issue Tim and thanks,the fact is you are well ahead of the season Iam going to use them,last winter here was a blow out not much snow,I will be in touch and get this sorted before the next winter.Cheers NCT

[gunner22a]

Just bought a set. As there is no place to get them here in Canada, Edmonton at least I called in an order to them directly. For those asking about price. The four tuners for the center wheels are $95 each for a total of #380US. You also need four 1/4 in spacers for the front and rear. No cost. Shipping to Canada added another $90 as they are heavy and need to be shipped in three separate packages. Was told they would be shipped today and here in 5-7 days. Will keep you posted on the outcome.

[rwilliams]

Track tuners

Do they make track tuners for the Mudd-Ox ?

[spookum]

Contact adair argo sales, Adair, Iowa USA. They will know A simple google search should get you the number... and welcome to the forums

[gunner22a]

Put mine on this weekend and took her for a drive. All I can say is wow! Huge difference. No chain noise at all and no loss of power. Can't understand why OGD didn't figure this out other than they make money on all the worn out parts. Anyone, and I mean anyone running rubber tracks needs a set of these. And no, I don't work for Adair. Great product and worth the $400 that they cost in a heart beat!