escargo track vs adair track

[Buzz]

I agree in regards to Alaska conditions, and I can see the good qualities in both tracks. I appreciate the time/labor involved to fabricate the escargo (looks easy, but very tedious...how much is your time worth) but realize it's heavy. I can see the weight savings in the UHMW (there's a break-over point where strength vs. thickness comes into play) and realize it is also an expensive material that is expensive to cut. My hope is to take advantage of a tough, lighter, proven material like UHMW alongside a super agressive traction cleat...especially the new 25 inch tire escargo crosser that is taller and has increased paddle area. Wider spacing on the crossers would require less of them and would help to propel better in the water. Right now I am thinking more than the current 4" spacing my tracks have (escargos have previously been on 3" centers and heavier). I will attest that turning the escargo "slower" does help with water performance too. We all know that a lighter track works well in the water. As for tire guides, I think the main difference is how the sidewall makes contact with the crossers that matters. Any rubber sidewall is going to sacrifice itself before the UHMW or steel abrades. Both are more slippery when when wet. The horizontal "radiused" part of the escargo crosser has its steel edges beveled "up" to avoid steel that is "on-edge" from coming into direct contact with rubber. When the escargo guides do make contact with the tire, they seem to do it up near the side-tread of the tire, far away from the meaty part of the sidewall, far away from the rim. If they tires are inflated properly...enough (this is important), the crossers will frequently not even touch the sidewalls. The inner edge of both belts (sidewall side) is also beveled to minimize rubbing. Hope that helps.

[spookum]

this looks like fun... ill be watcing... there are two more ideas or vairables that need to be considered.

1. What are your tire guides made out of? Steel wears out the side walls of your tires faster.

2. the more surface area a track puts down, the better it "floats" on soft soil or snow. How ever, when the track tuns our tires must "push" snow / mud out SIDE ways betewene the tire guides. Having an "open" track like adair or escargo works well in this regard.... you dont burn as much horse power that way.

Another thing to consider is the "tracton" of the grouser material... and keep that in mind for our enviroment in alaska. Adairs accel in the mud, and slop, while they dont work too hot driving on trees, or had packed gravel.... or ice. (you can mod it of course, with rubber covers or ice picks....) The escargso, from what i can gather, being made of iron, will do just fine driving through the alders or willows, and will climb up ice shelves.

just my .02

[Buzz]

thanks mudbug, sounds like 2/3 poly 1/3 steel would still be about 15 lbs heavier per side than the Adair. 3/4 poly, 1/4 steel might be about the same. The adair would still have a thicker plastic-portion of the track as well as 4 ply vs. 3 ply of the escargo (although escargo uses wider belt widths with thicker being an option) all things being equal. That would be in the neighborhood of being pretty darn close, the difference being in overall width, width between belts, and the belts being elevated on either side. Well, gives me something to do on the off-days...

[mudbug3]

The biggest difference that I can see is 1) weight of track 2)traction .......without having all the specs, you give up some traction to save in weight. Which is more important, which cleat works for you...

The adairs are lighter. I personally don't know how much. My guess is probably half the weight. I can't imagine damaging the 4-ply belt either which is probably good. Looks like it would be a little bit more of a pain to field-repair that the "bolt-hole pattern' of the escargo. Weight isn't everything, but an 8x8 escargo track to fit over 25" tires weighs 186 lbs each (don't quote me on that, but I'm fairly certain) They can me made lighter with wider spacing on the crossers and/or the addition of UHMW-escargo-shaped crossers (each one is 1/2 the weight, this is using 1" thick UHMW). I read the other day that Adair uses even thicker (stronger) UHMW now. A single vertical steel cleat that is centered under just the tire-width (actually narrower) has tremendous "bite." Sounds like Adair has some good traction enhancers though too. Others know more about these than I. Right now I am .....considering.... putting together a hybrid escargo track to play around with only because I am addicted to screwing around. Somewhere in the middle is probably the answer for the best overall track, (maybe not?) Replacing 2/3rds of my steel crossers with UHMW only really saves 1/3rd in weight overall (still significant). There are benefits to all steel, there are benefits to all plastic. There is nothing that the escargo cannot do within reason. They do lower your top speed....I hope to have more reports on that front shortly.
In the name of helping others (isn't the internet great), how much does (will) a set of rubber-belted Adairs weigh for an 8x8 over 25" tires. How much does each UHMW crosser weigh? I think they look good!

a 10 " inch ,Adair ,UHMW grouser ( crosser ) weighs 24.7 ounces ,and a 12 " inch , Adair ,UHMW grouser weighs 26 ounces. One Adair belted track to fit over 25 " inch rawhide tires weighs 105-110 pounds

[Noel Woods]

Hahahahahaha! Well put Smog. I feel the same way, and I'm glad someone finally said it.

They probably said the same thing when electric starters and pneumatic tires came out.
For those that haven't seen a comparison of tires vs. Adair tracks its the difference in night and day.
I issue a challenge for any machine equipped with tires to attempt to keep up with my Adair tracked machines. I can assure you even a high powered machine with ASX tires will not be able to keep up with a moderately powered machine with these tracks.

[Buzz]

The biggest difference that I can see is 1) weight of track 2)traction .......without having all the specs, you give up some traction to save in weight. Which is more important, which cleat works for you...

The adairs are lighter. I personally don't know how much. My guess is probably half the weight. I can't imagine damaging the 4-ply belt either which is probably good. Looks like it would be a little bit more of a pain to field-repair that the "bolt-hole pattern' of the escargo. Weight isn't everything, but an 8x8 escargo track to fit over 25" tires weighs 186 lbs each (don't quote me on that, but I'm fairly certain) They can me made lighter with wider spacing on the crossers and/or the addition of UHMW-escargo-shaped crossers (each one is 1/2 the weight, this is using 1" thick UHMW). I read the other day that Adair uses even thicker (stronger) UHMW now. A single vertical steel cleat that is centered under just the tire-width (actually narrower) has tremendous "bite." Sounds like Adair has some good traction enhancers though too. Others know more about these than I. Right now I am .....considering.... putting together a hybrid escargo track to play around with only because I am addicted to screwing around. Somewhere in the middle is probably the answer for the best overall track, (maybe not?) Replacing 2/3rds of my steel crossers with UHMW only really saves 1/3rd in weight overall (still significant). There are benefits to all steel, there are benefits to all plastic. There is nothing that the escargo cannot do within reason. They do lower your top speed....I hope to have more reports on that front shortly.
In the name of helping others (isn't the internet great), how much does (will) a set of rubber-belted Adairs weigh for an 8x8 over 25" tires. How much does each UHMW crosser weigh? I think they look good!

[Buzz]

old thread..here are my thoughts-
My guess is that you can now easily add a winter kit to Adair's rubber belted track because it has individual crossers and inner/outer belts like an escargo. It would depend on the height of aluminum the angle and clearance under the tub. You could always run a small wheel spacer if you needed a bit more inboard clearance for some aluminum angle and additional belt to attach to the outer-main-belt (primarily for winter time, or course). This kind of attached kit is very flexible on top of the tire but very stiff where it contacts the ground ( the main crossers and main belt "pin" it down with vehicle weight). UHMW crossers are light. I'm impressed by the new thicker cleats. I love the escargo tracks. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a set of Adair's rubber belted tracks because now I see flexibility in making them wider and the fact that the cleats are now thicker and stronger than before.

[agmac500]

The Escargots look very impressive in snow especially w extensions. Pricey but nice to be able to affix if needed. Adair?

[brebett]

No problem rock doctor. I'm learning a lot here and it helps a lot. Sometime I come back with the nearly the same question but here again I want to know as much as I can.

[brebett]

It's not good to work. We have to take it like "we're going to have fun while doing chores" ( in french I say "s'amuser en effectuant des tâches") and in the same time make time. When we start to work we go crazy hahaha.
I hope that Tim will have a chance to try his track on a frozen lake and trying to climb back on broken ice in deep water and send videos.
I sunk my argo once on ice with tires on and couldn't climb back. Hopefully my body could crawl on the ice and get very long rope and winch to get out of the lake. Otherwise we would have had a very cold night waiting in the argo so that somebody could find us. Here they wait putty long before starting research for lost people. They would have to get us by helicopter. No other crazy people would try to do what I did.

[North Country Tough]

I didn't, I was thinking that "brebett" might have taken my comment personally

I'm out at work with another 12-14" of new snow, and my Argo's are at HOME
Starting to hate this "Workin for a livin" thing
RD

Yea workin for a livin is for people that have no toys or hobbies.

[Rock Doctor]

dont take it personal RD NCT

I didn't, I was thinking that "brebett" might have taken my comment personally

I'm out at work with another 12-14" of new snow, and my Argo's are at HOME
Starting to hate this "Workin for a livin" thing
RD

[jpswift1]

Something even more important :

Even if the Adair track system is the most versatile 4 seasons traction system, The designer is clearly fully commited to make it THE BEST as I know he is working to improve his product, day after day and take every comment or suggestion very seriously.

Good point. If every AATV manufacturer had that mind set, we'd see quite the revolution and a rebirth of the AATV scene of what it once was back in the late 60's and early 70's.

[smog]

On a more serious note, here is something even more important :

Even if the Adair track system is the most versatile 4 seasons traction system, The designer is clearly fully commited to make it THE BEST as I know he is working to improve his product, day after day and take every comment or suggestion very seriously.

[jpswift1]

because here, the general consensus is that the Adair track system is a serious contender for a nobel price unless someone pop up with a cure for cancer.

Hahahahahaha! Well put Smog. I feel the same way, and I'm glad someone finally said it.