Argo differential vs t-20

[thebuggyman1]

Here's a short video from last weekend at Ashtabula where an Argo Bigfoot had a hard time with wheel spin in the mud hole. But 2 MaxII's both with 25" tires also walked right through it.
I'm not posting this to create the argument over "my Chevy beats your Ford" etc.
I only wanted to show the fact that it does take additional driver skill to take an Argo through the challenging terrain. We all know that they WILL go through it.
For the Newbies: An Argo uses a differential transmission. You apply brake to one side to make the other side spin....Think of a 2wd pickup on ice. You can see the driver toggling the steering back and forth.
The T-20 is actually 2 transmissions in one case. Each side operates independently from the other. If one side spins in the slippery stuff, the other side is still pulling you through.

[eddieb1965]

I have also seen motors reving high and no wheel spin with the t-20 because the operators were not puhing the levers forward hard enough.There are drawbacks to both.

[MaxRules]

I have also seen motors reving high and no wheel spin with the t-20 because the operators were not puhing the levers forward hard enough.There are drawbacks to both.

Come on Eddie, that's stretching it. Operating a vehicle improperly is not a drawback. A skilled operator can take either brand of vehicle farther but operating them correctly is what the video is comparing. The driver of an Argo has to compensate for the poor open diff design by using the brakes to transfer power side to side. That's a drawback and often ends in a stuck vehicle.

[Roadtorque]

Hmmm, I don't see a poor vehicle design. I saw two capable, but different, vehicles requiring two different techniques to get through the same mud hole

[jpswift1]

Come on Eddie, that's stretching it. Operating a vehicle improperly is not a drawback. A skilled operator can take either brand of vehicle farther but operating them correctly is what the video is comparing. The driver of an Argo has to compensate for the poor open diff design by using the brakes to transfer power side to side. That's a drawback and often ends in a stuck vehicle.

Exactly! Just because someone doesn't operate the machine correctly, it doesn't mean that's a drawback of the machine. Jim's comparison gives you a true, real world view of what the two machines can do in the same situation. And like Brandon stated, to compensate for the Argo's poor open differential transmission design the driver has to jerk the steering bars back and forth to actuate the brakes on and off for each side. Revving up the engine and doing this shock loading of the drive line creates a lot of stress on it and a lot of heat because of the friction.

[thebuggyman1]

My objective was not to say the Argo is inferior....only to say it requires more driver skill to tackle the same terrain.
I own a 2005 Avenger, and there are things I like about it. However, the transmission is not one of those things. My biggest complaint is the way it makes sweeping turns...you have to make a series of small jerky turns to equal a large sweep. The cure for that is to make all small tight turns.
In short, they each require a different driving style, and I find the t-20 to be much easier to operate.

[Dan67]

I own both, Hustler with T-20 and a Conquest 8x8. They are both equally good at going through the rough stuff and sticky goop. Just different ways going about it. The T-20 is easier for me. My daughter likes the Argo over the T-20. Mostly just comes down to operator preference.

[eddieb1965]

1st of all the operator didnt need to jerk the brakes like that at all,a steady pressure will keep all 6 spinning.It is a very poor video to say the least,I can show videos of the t-20 slipping because of operator inexperience,the same as jerking the brakes on the Argo to get one side then the other to drive on the Argo trans.Both do have drawbacks,for 1- I dont want to keep a constant pressure on the steering levers to go in a straight line,2-shifting requires jacking the levers back and forth to get a good mesh.3-t-20 is only a single speed trans,and needs periodic adjustments and additives to be effective. See my point.... We have already been here,LETS NOT DO THIS AGAIN.

[thebuggyman1]

Here is another view of the same mud hole

[jpswift1]

Great video, Jim.

[blown84gt]

1st of all the operator didnt need to jerk the brakes like that at all,a steady pressure will keep all 6 spinning.It is a very poor video to say the least,I can show videos of the t-20 slipping because of operator inexperience,the same as jerking the brakes on the Argo to get one side then the other to drive on the Argo trans.Both do have drawbacks,for 1- I dont want to keep a constant pressure on the steering levers to go in a straight line,2-shifting requires jacking the levers back and forth to get a good mesh.3-t-20 is only a single speed trans,and needs periodic adjustments and additives to be effective. See my point.... We have already been here,LETS NOT DO THIS AGAIN.

It appears to me that it is you who is "DOING THIS AGAIN"?

[Sol]

Thanks for the lesson buggyman.... Love it!

[thebuggyman1]

Thanks for the lesson buggyman.... Love it!

As I said in the PM I sent: The best way to learn is at a group ride. We have a number of members that can take an Argo anywhere, and the pointers from them would be invaluable. Unfortunately I am not one of those people. All I know how to do is push the sticks forward and squeeze hard on the throttle.

[eddieb1965]

I still have a hard time watching this,has to be one of the worst Argo operators I have seen.I only hope he has aquired the feel of getting both to spin and not the rediculous brake jerks and power transfer from one side to the other.Trick is to transfer the power but not completely brake that side hard enough to stop the wheels as he is demonstrating. Hopefully he has had 3 years of practice....

[thebuggyman1]

I still have a hard time watching this,has to be one of the worst Argo operators I have seen.I only hope he has aquired the feel of getting both to spin and not the rediculous brake jerks and power transfer from one side to the other.Trick is to transfer the power but not completely brake that side hard enough to stop the wheels as he is demonstrating. Hopefully he has had 3 years of practice....

Today Shawn is a wild man and a blast to ride with. There are very few (read: not so intelligent) places he wont follow if I do it first. You just have to get him to leave the wife and kid behind......silly people, like safety is a real consideration.

Simply put, The Argo trans just takes more time/skill to master.