CVT test run

[JohnF]

I have been trying to figure out how to lower the shift point on my clutch.
When I have a heavy load of wood on my back rack or pulling a trailer with a passenger
it takes a lot longer to upshift.
But when I ride alone without any load the upshift happens much quicker.
The rpm is around 5500 to 6000 when it shifts in both cases.
Im interested to see how adjusting the primary weights effects your shift point.
I love R&D ....keep us posted

Weights in primary mostly affect RPM.

Shift rate is a function of sheave angles of both pulleys, the driven pulley helix angle or curve, and driven pulley spring pretension. I don't know the clutches you have so don't know which adjustments you can make. On my Argo the sheave angle and helix angle are fixed so I can only play with the spring pretension. I prefer a lower numbered hole - higher pretension - shift up slower/down faster - because it performs better when under load or using engine braking when pointed downhill.

[minzwa]

I need a 49" belt for my Argo, and am having hells own time finding one that length? Any help on that?
I keep hearing "i can get you a 48 or a 51 but thats about it. Sigh, really dont want to pull the engine and redrill to move it.

[thebuggyman1]

I had planned to wait on updating this thread till I had it right, but since I referenced it in another post, I might as well bring it up to date.

After more trail rides and group outings with multiple types of terrain, I have determined that my original thoughts on engagement RPM's were WRONG.....Yes I admit it, (do not tell my wife) I was wrong.
I was hoping that I could raise the fully shifted RPM several hundred R's and slow down the rate it which it shifted. In reality all it did was raise the fully shifted RPM, and the shifting still happened over just a couple hundred R's from start of shift to fully shifted. Basically, in delaying the fully shifted RPM, it also delayed the start of shifting, and the rate remained the same. This made me use more fuel,and raised the motor noise, but it did help somewhat with my original complaint about the machine trying to go too fast too quickly.
I wish I had written down more details with RPM's at start and full shifted at each weight I tried, because my memory fails me......sorry. Last March at the Bundy Hill ride, I had the weights at 224g, and fully shifted was over 4000 R's. At Ashtabula I had the weights at 242g and I came to the conclusion that changing a small amount of weight does very little. Currently I have the weights at 269g and am waiting for the next ride to pass judgement......A standard weight block is 240g + the 37g of the plastic slider= 277g, so this is the weight I think I will end up with.

So, who wants to ride?

[coachgeo]

Bazooo guy: Clutch offset is correct, camera was mounted on the rollbar brace at a complex angle. I have the powerbloc 80 clutch, and it's different than the one in your posted video. I have fixed weights @ 275 g each, I wish I had the adjustable puck ones, that would be too easy to try different weights. ..

Im planning on running a cvtech powerbloc 50. Not much different than the 80. I think the 80 has a larger diameter allowing for a wider range between bottom and top ratio.

Granted my project is different. A 3cyl motorcycle. Came here cause apparently some of you also use diesels with CVT and might can add some insight. what RPM do you want your engine to make the clutches start grabbing? Where do you get adjustable weights for the CVTech? Where did you get your regular weights? Do you know the pitch of the 80? We need to know potential belt lenghts for our project and so far can't find SHIAT about length options available to us. Everyone wants a manufacture part # for belt which on custom we have not gotten of course. Parts guys dont know shiat about actual length's available.

any insight by anyone would be appreciated

[coachgeo]

Springs can play a difference to as well as the helix of course. Do you have Olav Aaen's clutch tuning book? For you sounds like most your answers will be found there. Unfortunately it says nothing about available belt lengths.

[thebuggyman1]

Since I last updated this, I've been on 2 more group rides. Ashtabula in Sept and Haspin in Nov. Between the two I increased the weights again. I am now nearly back at my stock weight, and have come to the conclusion that it was all just a waste of time. This BIG motor develops it's power too low in the rpm range and the machine is too light weight to hold the upshift back. The secondary I'm using does not have replacable ramps, and only one other choice of spring. I'm sure a stiffer spring would help a small amount, but not enough to get me where I want to be. My new theory is to change the throttle setup with an eccentric cam, so I can get 3/4 pull of the lever with only 1/4 opening of the carb butterfly. Then the remaining 1/4 lever pull would open the butterfly the rest of the way.

To answer your questions, you should contact Roy @ Quality Drive Systems
Carlisle bought out Dayco belts. Dayco used to have a listing online of belt lengths, widths and #'s, but Carlisle changed the website.

[JohnF]

When I talked to CvTech I was told that they don't support the powerbloc 50 anymore. At least not the version in the conquest although parts could be had through Argo. I got my weight sets there.

You'll have to experiment to find engagement RPM as that is a function of available HP and load. Imagine the difference between getting a standard transmission truck rolling while it is empty pointing downhill and loaded pointed uphill. Of course with the truck you get to modify engagement RPM with your actions and with a CVT you have to choose whatever best fits your mission overall.

Olav's book is good and very geeky (right up my alley) and will teach much about the theory and operation of CVTs.

Certainly give Roy a call. He puts more CVTs on more projects than most of us will ever see.

[thebuggyman1]

Here are the lighter blocks available through Argo.
ARGO PARTS WEIGHT SET (3), 240g
ARGO PARTS WEIGHT, 240g - HIGH ALTITUDE
ARGO PARTS BLOCK, PLASTIC
ARGO PARTS WEIGHT SET (3), 220g
ARGO PARTS WEIGHT, 220g - HIGH ALTITUDE

I assume that when you buy the set it includes the plastic sliders, otherwise the prices do not make sense.

[coachgeo]

....Certainly give Roy a call. He puts more CVTs on more projects than most of us will ever see.

Who is Roy?

[coachgeo]

One of the parts places I talked to that carried weights for my Powerbloc50 (same ones used in powerbloc 80 btw) did some search for me on what other "anything" with a diesel engine used the Powerbloc with performance rpm's etc. similar to what I suspect Ill be getting. His research came up with a 6x6 for comparison that used a diesel with similar specs to my engine. Im sorry I didn't record what 6x6 it was. Anyway the one he found had OEM specifications of 240grams in the Primary clutch.

I had planned to wait on updating this thread till I had it right, but since I referenced it in another post, I might as well bring it up to date.

After more trail rides and group outings with multiple types of terrain, I have determined that my original thoughts on engagement RPM's were WRONG.....Yes I admit it, (do not tell my wife) I was wrong.
I was hoping that I could raise the fully shifted RPM several hundred R's and slow down the rate it which it shifted. In reality all it did was raise the fully shifted RPM, and the shifting still happened over just a couple hundred R's from start of shift to fully shifted. Basically, in delaying the fully shifted RPM, it also delayed the start of shifting, and the rate remained the same. This made me use more fuel,and raised the motor noise, but it did help somewhat with my original complaint about the machine trying to go too fast too quickly.
I wish I had written down more details with RPM's at start and full shifted at each weight I tried, because my memory fails me......sorry. Last March at the Bundy Hill ride, I had the weights at 224g, and fully shifted was over 4000 R's. At Ashtabula I had the weights at 242g and I came to the conclusion that changing a small amount of weight does very little. Currently I have the weights at 269g and am waiting for the next ride to pass judgement......A standard weight block is 240g + the 37g of the plastic slider= 277g, so this is the weight I think I will end up with.

So, who wants to ride?

[thebuggyman1]

To answer your questions, you should contact Roy @ Quality Drive Systems
Carlisle bought out Dayco belts. Dayco used to have a listing online of belt lengths, widths and #'s, but Carlisle changed the website.

Mudd-ox is the only 6 or 8 wheeler I know that uses a diesel, but I don't think ever used a CVT clutch with the diesel (only gas motor).
I think Argo also offers a diesel in the "industrial model", but I don't think I've ever seen pictures of those that weren't tracked....maybe tracks were an option that everyone bought???
The other diesels you find will be custom builds. The biggest issue is the RPM range. Most will want to run between 1500-2500 rpms. Yanmars will turn a little faster though, and may be an easier motor to tune in.

[JohnF]

Who is Roy?

Look up a couple posts, Jim gave a link...

... (same ones used in powerbloc 80 btw) ...

That depends on which powerbloc 50 you have. The older conquest CVT (an older version of the powerbloc 50) like the one I have uses different mass blocks. The guy at CVTech told me they weren't interchangeable.

[coachgeo]

Look up a couple posts, Jim gave a link...

Ahhhh... Roy is the Argo parts guy. OK called him. He was clueless. Nice fellow but knew only about Argo and their is only one belt for them.

...That depends on which powerbloc 50 you have. The older conquest CVT (an older version of the powerbloc 50) like the one I have uses different mass blocks. The guy at CVTech told me they weren't interchangeable.

interesting. Since mine came from CVtech I hope that is not an issue I run into.

[JohnF]

Ahhhh... Roy is the Argo parts guy...

Oops, sorry I sent you astray, that's the wrong guy. Roy is the guy behind Quality Drive Systems <click that link--

He's talked about in these parts as a CVT guru.

... Since mine came from CVtech I hope that is not an issue I run into.

I don't think it is. I just didn't want someone with a conquest and its old powerbloc 50 accidentally buying the newer weights.

[coachgeo]

Oops, sorry I sent you astray, that's the wrong guy. Roy is the guy behind Quality Drive Systems <click that link--

He's talked about in these parts as a CVT guru.




I don't think it is. I just didn't want someone with a conquest and its old powerbloc 50 accidentally buying the newer weights.

Understand your not wanting my post to cause anyone with a Conquest/pb50 issue so thanks for adding that tid bit of knowledge for the readers about the compatibility point.

As to Roy: DING DING DING DING..... you sir are my hero. Roy is THE MAN. Had a great conversation with him and even found out we have a common friend.