Hustler T20 question

[wmsthree]

Well, this is a good point. How much is supposed to be on there? More importantly how do I tell if they're streched? I've got them boxed and ready to ship - how much do new ones cost?

[jpswift1]

I think 6X6World member, buggyman has the specs on how much meat is supposed to be on the bands. You might want to send him a message.

[JoeMeg]

Don't quote me but I think relined ones from T/C measure .109/.110". The steel on the ones I'm putting in the trans I'm about to assemble is .060 +/- one or two,they measure .095 total.A reassembled and not yet used one I have is marked .090". The plungers protrude 3/16-1/4" tops. I don't know a way to measure them in length. Maybe measure all of yous with a sewing tape measure and see if one or more are much longer than others? Bill Gerber is right on this one,I wouldn't send them off just yet.

Joe.

[wmsthree]

OK, so if they're stretched then its back to RI to get new bands? Anyone know how much new ones cost?

[Bill Gerber]

There should be a small area near the plunger that dosent contact the drum. if you measure it there with mic's or dial calipers compared to the wear area you should be able to tell. I remember that I compared mine to new ones that i just dug up, because i thought mine were worn out, only to find that my originals were only about .002" thiner at the thinest place. I assumed mine had to be worn out because of the known torture that the machine endured without or with little fluid in it. It leaked and was made worse by a non-vented fill plug. It would get hot and blow oil out everywhere.
I think bands were just under 100 bucks a pop. But its been awhile tho.
Other than installing them in the case. I dont know how you would check to see if they were stretched. Ive never had a set that i can say were stretched. But from what i read on here, others have. I was thinking that the set that i have were just made too long (Factory reject). In my case, i run into a lot of that stuff that didn't make it to the dumpster. I guess i find it hard to believe that they stretch. But there has to be a reason that yours are sticking out so far. If its not wear on the lining and the drum is not worn. Anchor pin is ok. It would have to be stretched.

[Bill Gerber]

Maybe if you put the pin in and measure to the other end while holding it tight around the drum. if its even possible. You might need about 4 hands.. Compair it to one that didn't stick out.
You can completely assemble one half of the t-20 (input side) and bolt the center plate with out dealing with the other half for trouble shooting.
When you put it back together make sure that you have endplay in the input shaft. If you dont, that means one of those damn washers fell down off of the shoulder inside the drums and got pinched between the outside of the shoulder and the planetary plate as it was reassembled.
That is if you have the type with the washers.

[thebuggyman1]

The steel used in older bands is .060" thick, and the newer bands measure .070" thick. You would be best to call transmission crafters and ask, but I think they add .045" of wear material. I do have a fresh relined set in the garage I could go measure.......
The wear material on your used bands is very hard to measure accurately, because the calipers will sink into it.
I find it hard to believe that the metal has stretched, being a spring steel, it's more likely to fatigue and crack. Maybe you should have them magnafluxed?
If you are worried about them making the plungers come out too far, T.C. may be able to put thicker wear material on them???
I have rebuilt transmissions in the past that had all 4 plungers at different spots, even though the druma had not been turned and the bands were relined. My guess is the bands were just made at slightly different lengths.

If it was my trans, I'd just reline the bands AFTER getting them magnafluxed.

[JoeMeg]

Maybe,as previously mentioned,give Transmission Crafters a call at 229-883-8490. Perhaps they can provide some numbers regarding the thickness of the steel band only vs relined ones. Also,maybe an easy way to measure/gage the length. Maybe they have some data on what a "useable" core measures vs a non-useable one. I'm gonna try to get to the trans I gotta assemble tonite,I know I have a sewing tape measure on my bench. I will measure the length of all four bands with the .095" mat'l on them. I will post the numbers and exactly where I measured from/to later this eve or early tomorrow. Be patient,through this resourceful site I'm sure an explanation will be found. Money not wasted on the trans means more for other needed stuff.(ask me how/why I know this,lol)

Joe.

[wmsthree]

Drug the bands to work with me, they're about .070 in the bare spots, .105 on the part that doesn't touch the drum. Seeing they still have some lining on them and the drums not being worn makes me wonder why they stuck out of the case so much. What's the O.D. on the drums supposed to be? I don't think this tranny's been apart before, but I can't be sure - maybe it has, and someone turned the drums down? I apprieciate all the input here, guys, I'm just trying to dot my i's and cross my t's before I assemble this thing - I hate doing something twice, especially when it's my fault!!!

[JoeMeg]

"I'm just trying to dot my i's and cross my t's before I assemble this thing - I hate doing something twice, especially when it's my fault!!! "

Good move,especially when it's your $$ too,lol. I don't know the OEM dia for the drums,they are over 6" and all my calipers stop there,have never actually measured one. Guess a few should follow me to work some day. If you measure yours,let us know what you get. There is an explanation for this.

Joe.

[JoeMeg]

I measured the length of two of my bands by wrapping a piece of nylon string around them from the end of the eyelet where it's welded to the band to the same place on the other end. I then measured it with a tape and got 56 3/4"-57".

Joe.

[thebuggyman1]

What's the O.D. on the drums supposed to be?

Drums measure 6.210" They can be turned down to 6.180" without a problem, after that it's on an individual basis....
That's removing .030" from a drum maximum. I did remove .033" to clean one up once and it worked just fine...I even checked the fit with a bare band before it was sent to be relined.

[Bill Gerber]

wmsthree

I think you found the problem
Doing the math, And I really hate math.
Unworn area .105
Bare spot .070
Difference .035
Drums Dia. 6.210
Circumference of drum is 19.50

If you subtract .035 all the way around the surface of the drum (or the tightened band) that would be a dia of 6.210 - .070 = 6.14 Times PI gives you a circumference of
19.288. That gives you a difference of .211
That would be the added band length per wrap with no lining.
Times about 2.5 wraps = .52 longer band when tight. But that’s considering all the lining was gone.
If your lining is worn down to where you have bare spots.
You would be somewhere in the middle to the top of this range.
I think this explains the amount that your plunger sticks out in the pic you posted in this thread.
I think the reline job will hook you up..
I have edited my math twice so I better check my numbers tomorrow. Its too late and i cant think straight anymore.
I will edit it if its wrong. But you get the idea. Im going back to bed. Sorry for the caution. Looks like you should have shipped them, like you planned.

[wmsthree]

Joe, Jim, Bill - thank all of you for your inputs. Bill - I agree with your math. I checked my drums with a magnifying glass yesterday (literally) and can't find any evidence that they were turned down. My bands were worn down to bare spots in several places and paper thin in others. Boxed them up and sent them out to Transmission Crafters yesterday, bearings and seal kit is on the way from RI. As soon as the bands come back I'll throw it together and check - but I bet you're right, Bill, new lining x 2 1/2 wraps will put the plunger back where it belongs. Once again, Thank ALL off you for your inputs on this.

[wmsthree]

Here's a picture of my first freshly rebuilt T-20! I want to give a special thanks to George for posting the T-20 video and Mike for the T-20 rebuild article, they were invaluable. Also a shameless plug for Transmission Crafters in Albany, Ga., for relining my bands and getting them back to me in a very reasonable time. RI was on the ball with my seals, bearings and thrust washers in a timely manner as well. Thanks to all of you who answered my questions and helped me through this, thanks to all the help it was simple! Now all I have to do is drop it in the hustler and get my motor mounts lined out and I'll be riding again!