T-20 questions

[racerone3]

just split the case on my T-20, and i was wondering what to look for. i've read the rebuliding article so i know the fluid should be red... it is just wondering what the bands on a 30+ year old machine should look like. how much friction material should be on them? there was a bit of sludge in the bottom of the case (normal?) also a little debris... automotive tranys and rear gears always have a bit of trash in them... is this to be expected? this trany shows no signs of leaks, and the bands look ok to me, no chunks missing and smooth. the drums look ok where the friction material rides. can someone post up a pic of a new band for comparison? i'm going to do a seal kit and bearings anyway, just don't want to get it back together only to find i should have done more.
thanks

[Mike]

A little sludge is ok. On the bands, as long as the material is consistent on all four you should be fine. Like you mentioned as long as there are no knicks or tears in the material and as long as none of it is pulling away from the metal, you should be fine there as well. I believe replacing the seals is a smart move and the bearings can't hurt either although that's totally up to you.

[racerone3]

thanks mike. the friction material on the bands looks really thin like they are almost worn out, but not knowing what new looks like it's hard to say

[Mike]

I don't have the thickness that they should be new (they do look thin) but I'm sure one of the T20 experts on this board will chime in with the answer. Here's a picture for comparison of what mine look like:

http://www.6x6world.com/images/t20-skid-steer-trans/65-ring-gear-washer.jpg

[George]

I got newly resurfaced bands from Richard's Relics. They came with about
1/8th of an inch on them. Rumor has it RC uses more material than B/W puts on new bands.

I have another set of bands that only have about 1/16th that I intend to use in a spare tranny.

[racerone3]

a few more questions?????????

alright, i finally got the t-20 torn down (most of the way) and i have a few more questions. how are the shift levers held in? i've read the article, and i don't see anything about what holds them in. they move freely, but don't just pull out like it shows in the article. i haven't tried prying yet... don't want to mess anything up. next question, the steel rods that anchor the bands to the case, both of mine are bent on one end. is this normal or should they be straight. if they should be straight, what are they made of? if they are just mild steel i can make some new ones no problem.
thanks guys

[George]

What do you call them...retaining rings? Or is it C-clips? Anyway, they keep the shifters in. Even after they're removed, you might need some leverage to get them to slide out. The posts you speak of should be straight. I don't know what they're made of though.

Check the surface of the drums. Anyone using enough force to bend those posts may have been doing so because they were riding metal on metal to get the bands to grab the drums.

[racerone3]

thanks george, the bands and drums look ok. this was a racer to begin with so it may have seen some severe use! i'll look for the c-clips on the shifters. not sure how to get in there to remove clips, but i'll figure it out. i have 1 other issue with the trans and may need to replace one of the cash halves, but i'm gonna get a pic of it and consult with whipper on this one. if he doesn't have any ideas, anyone got a case half laying around?????

[George]

The rings are just inside the the T-20 where the shifters rest.

Here's what the ring looks like and the pliers you use to get them out.

[racerone3]

found em george. mine were actually on the outside of the shifter under the diamonds. i tried every pair of snap ring pliers i own and tried turning the ring every way i could.... i ended up prying them out with a screwdriver... new ones are cheap, and i'd rather have new anyway. anyone have the specs on the shifter 0 rings. i was dumb and assumed they would be the same as the plungers... not so much. doesn't look like i'll be getting the trany back together this weekend anyway

[George]

I think Don would know and I believe they can be found at HomeDepot.

[Don]

Sounds like you're almost done as it is, Brian.

The pins that anchor the bands are probably just mild steel, but if there's any doubt, I've got extras. I wonder what bent them, though- I've never seen them like that, and they should be held on both ends, so there's no easy way for them to bend. The only thing I can come up with is that possibly they were installed incorectly- out of the drilling on one end. That may have done it.

I never put the snap rings back in over the shifters: they're a pain in the butt, as you found out. The newer T20s use a piece of light angle that bolts into the threaded holes in the top of the trans and holds the shift spool down. I'll post a picture if I can find one. The O-rings can be matched up at a hardware store- nothing special about them.

Good luck

[6X6]

Hi Racer: I just did my T-20, those rings are a pain in the butt, but I luckily had access to a full MAC TOOLS snap-ring pliers set. I found that a 45º plier makes removal easy, and a 90º pair will put em in no problem, but if you use a screwdriver to press the far side down, the 45º can be used for the install also without issue. When you go to do it, you see how the different angles make it easy to work the pin in or out. (THANKS MOGMAN!! for the tool access!!!)

[racerone3]

6x6, i have that set of pliers... just couldn't get there from here. patience has never been one of my strong points though! don, if you could get a pic of those shifter hold down's i'd really appreciate it. i think i know what your talking about, but i'd rather be sure before i go building them. as for the bent pins, let me know what you want for a pair?? attached is a pic of the case. the hole where the band retaining pin sits is egged out pretty bad. looks like it might have been welded once, and re drilled. any ideas on a fix, or should i replace that case half?

[rdr]

6x6, i have that set of pliers... just couldn't get there from here. patience has never been one of my strong points though! don, if you could get a pic of those shifter hold down's i'd really appreciate it. i think i know what your talking about, but i'd rather be sure before i go building them. as for the bent pins, let me know what you want for a pair?? attached is a pic of the case. the hole where the band retaining pin sits is egged out pretty bad. looks like it might have been welded once, and re drilled. any ideas on a fix, or should i replace that case half?

weld it race . tig it with the AC bal on max pen then redrill if they welded it with 4043 you might want to use 5356 it's a little bit harder than 4043 . robbie