Belt slip - clutch modification???

[ARGOJIM]

Yes that would be unloaded wide open throttle. Your machine will no longer do 24ish with 21's and tracks, probably in the 15 range now.

[dirtdobber]

Delduck, keep the belt on and transmission in neutral when setting the rpm. You don't want another damaged clutch!

[Delduck]

O my god yes I thank you I definitely don't need anymore prolems

[Delduck]

Hey Jim (IF) it ran 24 mph with the 18hp and the only change was red spring and 23 hp motor would it change that much?

[ARGOJIM]

The speed change is due to the size drop of the tires.

[Delduck]

I guess where I'm confused is the tires and tracks were on the machine when the 18 was on. My mph is probably wrong I'm just using those as a reference. In other words it feels like I least 50% of my speed is gone. The mechanic is going to tighten the belt then hook the machine to his forklift to see if he can pull it, he seems to think that will tell him if the torque is there. I'm not worried about speed but it seemed to be a big difference from before.

[dirtdobber]

Get the engine speed right first. If your tire size, sprocket sizes and clutch diameter hasn't changed you should be able to hit your old speed. The problem logically has to be engine speed.

I guess you can check and make sure your clutches are working. At idle the drive clutch should be wide open and the driven clutch completely closed. In neutral, increase engine speed and you should see the drive sheaves close and the driven sheaves open. I have a video of my machine earlier in this thread (post #14). Yours should do the same thing. But if your engine isn't spinning fast enough the clutches won't fully open/close.

[Delduck]

2 / problems or maybe ther just questions. My mechanic says no to the 4000 rpm because it's supposed to be 3600 so what do you guys think???? Next, I read a post from June first 2013 from Eddie b, post#4 who says, if I'm reading it right, adding rpm will not give anymore power but may give a little more speed. I don't nesisarily need speed I just thought it was odd to not have as much speed as I did when I had the 18 hp. Should I be worried that something's wrong or just run the machine?

[philipatmaxfour]

2 / problems or maybe ther just questions. My mechanic says no to the 4000 rpm because it's supposed to be 3600 so what do you guys think???? Next, I read a post from June first 2013 from Eddie b, post#4 who says, if I'm reading it right, adding rpm will not give anymore power but may give a little more speed. I don't nesisarily need speed I just thought it was odd to not have as much speed as I did when I had the 18 hp. Should I be worried that something's wrong or just run the machine?

I would say it's best to get the no load maximum engine speed set first. The specs on these small motors call for 3600 rpm because they are usually used as stationary power plants for welders ,mowers, irrigation pumps etc. where they run endlessly at full rpm. The difference in top speed at 3600rpm and 4000 rpm is surprisingly large. Argos and Maxs run for years seat at 4000 max.

[dirtdobber]

adding rpm will not give anymore power but may give a little more speed. I don't nesisarily need speed I just thought it was odd to not have as much speed as I did when I had the 18 hp. Should I be worried that something's wrong or just run the machine?

Adding rpm may or may not give the engine more power depending on the specs of the engine. Engines have a power curve, meaning they produce more horsepower as the rpm's increase, up to a point. An engine can start loosing power as rpm's increase. Google power curve and you can get a better understanding. You aren't needing more engine power, you need more engine speed if you want more ground speed. Something you can do to get an idea of what is going on (if this can be done safely on your machine) is take it out for a top speed drive and observe the clutches. If, at your top speed, the clutches aren't at full travel, then more engine speed will help them reach full travel. When the clutches are at full travel, that produces the "high gear" ratio that give you greater ground speed. If you are happy with its current speed and don't want to tinker with anything, then run it as long as your mechanic tells you everything is mechanically in good shape.

[ARGOJIM]

First I'd like to say I misread your post somewhere and ass/u/me/d your speed checking was with 26 inch tires as the factory speed rating of 25 mph is with 26 inch tires and dropping to a 21 will greatly decrease top speed.
If your speed change is with the same tire configuration then the problem exists in either an engine speed deficiency or a drive engagement issue.

I would say it's best to get the no load maximum engine speed set first. The specs on these small motors call for 3600 rpm because they are usually used as stationary power plants for welders ,mowers, irrigation pumps etc. where they run endlessly at full rpm. The difference in top speed at 3600rpm and 4000 rpm is surprisingly large. Argos and Maxs run for years seat at 4000 max.

Philip is right on the money, the factory 3600 rpm setting is impossible to get with the machine under load unless your mechanic wants to bounce across a field at 15mph turned around in the back seat with his hands on the hot engine.

The Argo factory for certain has B&S permission to adjust to the 4000 neutral/unloaded rpm. Think of it this way, your engine is currently set at 3600 in neutral now you put the machine in gear and go across the field and your engine is able to pull 3100-3200 rpm due to the setting and added load of the drivetrain, given your clutches are set to engage from around 1500 rpm and cycle through to 3600 rpm. With the 2000 rpm engagement curve now lessened to a 1500/1600 rpm engagement curve that is almost a 25% loss in useable power and input speed to the transmission and ultimately the wheels, hence speed loss.
So setting the engine at 4000/4100 neutral rpm when your machine is in use it can pull 3500/3600 rpm when on a flat surface, the only time the engine may reach near 4000 rpm is when the machine is held full throttle on a extended down hill run.

Oh I forgot to add this also, most 23's I've seen added to the machines seem to cycle up to about 3200 rpm with the factory settings just from the clutch engagement cycle in neutral, you may also see a slight 2-3mph drop in top end speed just from the red spring.

[Delduck]

I understand new thanks for the input I'm going to have him move the rpm up to 4000

[Canadian_Zuk]

It takes almost 4000 rpm to fully shift these clutches out, I set my max to 4200 RPM.

[Delduck]

Wiped out belt 48 min

The heading explains it. Max4 brand new belt 48 min driving belt ripped to shreds. It squeeled for maybe 3 min before it went, new clutch stuck open. What now?

[ARGOJIM]

As far as the clutch, you can try with one hand on either side squeezing the face closed, be sure to keep any of your skin outside of the opening as it will snap to the open position. If that doesn't work a pair of pry bars carefully will do the same.