Hustler 23HP T-20 issues

[gfleharty]

I'm getting this Hustler all put back together with a Vanguard 23HP and I am getting the T-20 sorted out. It sat out in the elements so it has some rust issues. I got it to go into gear by cleaning up the shifting arms, and working the shifters with a screw driver. So now I notice that the input shaft is moving in/out about 1/4" here is a video https://youtu.be/8BiZje-6_ws Can I run it like this for a short time while I roundup the rebuild parts? Or is it best to just pull it out.

[countrybumpkin]

With the shaft play and plungers sticking out of the case is evidence of wear of the bands and thrush washers. You really don’t know how bad it is unless you pop it apart and inspect it, which is what I would do if it is a a used unknown machine to you.

[msafi65]

If the input shaft moves more than .050” measured movement it should come apart. .015-.030 endplay is normal. If thrust washers fail on input shaft it chews up the center support.

[dirtdobber]

Also make sure the driven pulley mounting bolt is tight. If its not, some of that play could be the pulley sliding back and forth on the input shaft.

[gfleharty]

With the shaft play and plungers sticking out of the case is evidence of wear of the bands and thrush washers. You really don’t know how bad it is unless you pop it apart and inspect it, which is what I would do if it is a a used unknown machine to you.

thanks, I'll have to pull it out

[gfleharty]

If the input shaft moves more than .050” measured movement it should come apart. .015-.030 endplay is normal. If thrust washers fail on input shaft it chews up the center support.

Thanks for the response, I'll have to pull it

[gfleharty]

With the shaft play and plungers sticking out of the case is evidence of wear of the bands and thrush washers. You really don’t know how bad it is unless you pop it apart and inspect it, which is what I would do if it is a a used unknown machine to you.

Here are two videos of the T-20 disassembled, very rusty and lots of scored surfaces. Looking for feedback on whether it is worth rebuilding or not. https://youtu.be/rQehf0QgeW8 https://youtu.be/4C3ybD501SI

[dirtdobber]

Whether or not its worth rebuilding is a tough question. In theory, you could have a machine shop take a few thousandths off the center plate stub shafts, and refit the corresponding drums with new bushings. It also looks like a new bushing is needed in the case also. The question is what would this cost - I have no idea. It looks like you may also have some wear on the case. It looks scarred up at the bushing and oil splash guard, which would lend to all the play you had in the input shaft. You may be able to correct for the case wear with thrust washers, though.

Your drum looked good, though. Inspect the planetary gear, sun gear and ring gear teeth, and inspect the engaging teeth on the shift collars, drum, and planetary gear plate. Check the mounting bolt holes/studs to see that they are not busted or stripped, and check the holes for the diamond shifters for wear (the shifter will be a sloppy fit and can bind when rotating). If all the parts look good except for the wear surfaces you showed in the video, take to to a machine shop and see if they can give you a price to rebush it clean up the bad surfaces. You just have to work up a cost estimate to fix it versus tracking down a used one, which you will want to open up for inspection.

Sorry for the non-answer! Good luck and report back.

[gfleharty]

Whether or not its worth rebuilding is a tough question. In theory, you could have a machine shop take a few thousandths off the center plate stub shafts, and refit the corresponding drums with new bushings. It also looks like a new bushing is needed in the case also. The question is what would this cost - I have no idea. It looks like you may also have some wear on the case. It looks scarred up at the bushing and oil splash guard, which would lend to all the play you had in the input shaft. You may be able to correct for the case wear with thrust washers, though.

Your drum looked good, though. Inspect the planetary gear, sun gear and ring gear teeth, and inspect the engaging teeth on the shift collars, drum, and planetary gear plate. Check the mounting bolt holes/studs to see that they are not busted or stripped, and check the holes for the diamond shifters for wear (the shifter will be a sloppy fit and can bind when rotating). If all the parts look good except for the wear surfaces you showed in the video, take to to a machine shop and see if they can give you a price to rebush it clean up the bad surfaces. You just have to work up a cost estimate to fix it versus tracking down a used one, which you will want to open up for inspection.

Sorry for the non-answer! Good luck and report back.

I talked to Mud-OX & they said the clearance tolerances aren't as critical and didn't have a spec on it, so I'm going to clean it all up and replace bearings and gaskets and have the bands relined by Transmission crafters. It should be good for my use, as long as I get the end play adjusted correctly.

Thanks for the feedback!

[msafi65]

It looks to me like the center plate is worn on the ends. Newer models have a slot in the ends for thrust washer tang. This stops the thrust washers from spinning and wearing the center plate. Be advised that all the bushings are not sized. Once pressed in they have to be fit. With the wear I see on your ring gear drums they should polish up well and not be very far under specs. The band surfaces in video is easily polished. 200 RPM in a lathe with 100 grit paper gives nice dull finish. You don’t want mirror finish where bands run. I can get you the dimensions of center support if you want. Text me at 907-388-8582.

[gfleharty]

It looks to me like the center plate is worn on the ends. Newer models have a slot in the ends for thrust washer tang. This stops the thrust washers from spinning and wearing the center plate. Be advised that all the bushings are not sized. Once pressed in they have to be fit. With the wear I see on your ring gear drums they should polish up well and not be very far under specs. The band surfaces in video is easily polished. 200 RPM in a lathe with 100 grit paper gives nice dull finish. You don’t want mirror finish where bands run. I can get you the dimensions of center support if you want. Text me at 907-388-8582.

I'll text you tomorrow, I was looking around and found the end plate picture http://www.6x6world.com/images/t20-s...ainer-ring.jpg, My end plate doesn't have a tang left, that may be where some of the end play is. So I might have to add an extra thrust washer and cut a notch in the end plate, or get another end plate.

[gfleharty]

I'll text you tomorrow, I was looking around and found the end plate picture http://www.6x6world.com/images/t20-s...ainer-ring.jpg, My end plate doesn't have a tang left, that may be where some of the end play is. So I might have to add an extra thrust washer and cut a notch in the end plate, or get another end plate.

I talked to Matt at Mudd-OX yesterday, he gave me some more background on the Skid-Steer transmission. There have been numerous manufacturers of this transmissions over the last 40 years, and many design changes. Including the tang type washers were not used on every transmission because the center plates were made differently. He said that the master rebuild kit includes all the standard thrust washers. I will update the thread when I get the kit and start putting it together.