T-20 plunger noise (sticking?)

[Mike]

The top "plungers" (forward ones) seem to stick when I pull the sticks back in my Max. If I slowly (I mean real slowly) let the sticks go back forward it won't fully engage the transmission. I have to push forward slightly and you can hear the plunger "clink" back in.

Does this happen often? I really just assumed that it did but today I was playing around with the T20 while it is out of the 6x6 and noticed that only the top two plungers do this.

[jpswift1]

My BIGFOOT T-20 did that and I think it has something to do with the O rings on the steering plungers either binding up in there.

[hydromike]

If I slowly ... let the sticks go back forward it won't fully engage the transmission.

You mean they go back forward all by themselves? Now that's some weird stuff...

Okay, on the serious side, how far into the transmission case are the plungers going? If they go too far, the O-ring on the plunger will pop out of the plunger bore. You have to "snap" it back into its bore since its meeting the resistance to compress the rubber. This side of the bore is super sharp, and can destroy O-rings with only a couple "snap" cycles, at which point it can start to leek precious goo..... I'm not sure if your generation Max has the double O-rings, but some did..... where's HeyDan? He'll know for sure.

I've always been told that when you install the plungers, they have to go in from the front side of the case so you don't destroy the rings....

There's not too much else to cause this symptom in your tranny. If only your tops leak, you can live with it since the precious goo has to work harder to get out the top ones. I'd look into adjusting the bands so that the plungers sit where they should, though.

~m

[liflod]

That's pretty common. My Attex's did that and the Max does it also. Its the sloppy U channel linkage that does not push the plungers back into the T-20 until the pluger hits the clip on the U channel. I would put some grease or vaseline on the plungers and see if that helps.

[Mike]

Thanks for the replies everybody.

Mike, the plungers aren't going too far in, they just stick at the outer most position for a second and make a noise when they pop back. Luckily I think the o-rings are ok. They don't leak any either *knock on wood*

Lance, the dry o-ring combined with the sloppy linkage makes sense. I may try some vasoline on them and see if that helps.

I always wondered if anybody else had that problem.

Thanks!

[hydromike]

Doh, I'm not that familiar with the U-channels, either. Only the RIM has them, and I'm not quite used to them. (It used to have the springs on the 'lats,too, but that was the very first thing to come of). Lance's suggestion makes much more sense. Ignore the O-ring schpeal.

~m

[liflod]

I would love to modify mine to the center pivot and eye bolts. It is much smoother operation and you can reduce the lateral travel. The U channel is why the Max's have a longer throw than others. HeyDan modified his and there is hardly any throw.

[mad_max_500cc]

my origional 75 t20 was doing that as well (u channel style) i ended swaping it out for an older 69 borg warner bar style and lance is right there is alot less travel when running this style linkage

[mad_max_500cc]

i just rembered the t 20 im running now i bought of swifty a couple of years back still working great thanks jeff

[jpswift1]

Eric, Im glad its working for you! I only have 2 of the U channel style T-20's and the rest are the solid lever type and I have to admit Im not very fond of the U channel style. There is too much travel as you guys mentioned and I have no clue why they ever changed them over.

[liflod]

$$$$$ ???

[Mike]

So the channel style T-20 linkage is on the newer machines? Do any of you have a picture of the old style?

[Hey_Dan]

Sticky Plungers

I have seen this problem a few tires before. We lube up the plungers with PB Blaster and move the sticks back and forth to work it in. It usually gets better gradually with some driving. I usually spray some lube on them whenever I lube the chains. This doesn't happen with the bottom ones because they are in fluid all the time. I also clean the crud off the top of the shifters and lube them.

[whipper-ag]

I have a copy of the original Borg Warner T-20 parts manual. I don't have a scanner, but would be happy to make a copy for anyone interested. It shows the straight arms that pivot on a dowel pin in the center of the tranny. Recreatives changed it to the U-Channel. In my opinion, I like the old style better, except for the little tiny snap rings that held the pivot pins in place. The U-Channel design is great, because it can never come apart on you, but in return it doesn't have the pivot point for smooth operation. That's what all that snapping & clicking is about.

[Mike]

Dan, thanks for the PB advice and whipper, thanks for those attachments. I actually had the channels off today getting the rust off and painting them so I will take this opportunity to lube them liberally.