making a 6x6 skid steer transmission...

[AndyL]

so there are a couple different ways i can steer an amphib...there's the attex 6000 which is simply gearing down the engine and enabling steering forward-only, or hydraulics, which can be heavy, loud, and expensive. argo make a trans exclusive for them, max does the same with their t-20, and the tuff torq-kt-35 is not made anymore.

for those of you who know about the muscateer...it's transmission is called a "black box"...just a big box full of chains and sprockets. at first i laughed when i saw this thinking of all the problems that could happen. but then i read up a little on it. i am wondering if there are actually advantages in a design like this for another "skid steer" drive that could be used. do you guys think it's durable and reliable to have that much going on for the drive? would that be a turn-off for you in an atv?
here's what i like about it:
1. all parts are generic, so it would not cost much to build
2. you can have the capability of zero turn (one side reverse and the other in forward) without any hydraulics!! this is the one i really like.

do you think it's worth designing something with parts like this to get a zero turn option without hydraulics? or are there too many moving parts waiting to break in your opinion?

and to answer any questions right now, no i am not interested in just using a transmission that is already out there. the idea is to make something new, something that could be better.

[Beeman]

In my opinion, if you have the ability to do it and enjoy the work - do it up! There will always be room to improve on anything out there (except the wheel.. cause it's awesome.. than again.. there is the twheel).

[Robinhood02]

the best trani system i've ever seen for this kind of app. is the drive unit out of an old mechanical drive agricultural swather from the 50s 60s or 70s ,they all had only one gear and it was forward ,if you wanted to go right ,pull back a little on the right stick ,if you wanted to go back you simply pulled back on both steering handles ,if you wanted zero turn radious pull hard back on one stik and you will have one wheel going forward and the other backwards,,, the beauty of it is it worked going back too if you were going backwards you could do zero turn as well and it is so simple these things ran for decades with little or no repairs not to mention it was the drive unit on a 3500 lb unit not a 805 lb Max, LOL and i think it weighs less that a T20

[Amphiman1]

steering,,

the best trani system i've ever seen for this kind of app. is the drive unit out of an old mechanical drive agricultural swather from the 50s 60s or 70s ,they all had only one gear and it was forward ,if you wanted to go right ,pull back a little on the right stick ,if you wanted to go back you simply pulled back on both steering handles ,if you wanted zero turn radious pull hard back on one stik and you will have one wheel going forward and the other backwards,,, the beauty of it is it worked going back too if you were going backwards you could do zero turn as well and it is so simple these things ran for decades with little or no repairs not to mention it was the drive unit on a 3500 lb unit not a 805 lb Max, LOL and i think it weighs less that a T20

I had 2 of those swathers.... they were lime green., i can't remember the name of them right now though....

[AndyL]

the best trani system i've ever seen for this kind of app. is the drive unit out of an old mechanical drive agricultural swather from the 50s 60s or 70s ,they all had only one gear and it was forward ,if you wanted to go right ,pull back a little on the right stick ,if you wanted to go back you simply pulled back on both steering handles ,if you wanted zero turn radious pull hard back on one stik and you will have one wheel going forward and the other backwards,,, the beauty of it is it worked going back too if you were going backwards you could do zero turn as well and it is so simple these things ran for decades with little or no repairs not to mention it was the drive unit on a 3500 lb unit not a 805 lb Max, LOL and i think it weighs less that a T20

i really like that idea. i never knew something like that existed in those machines. kinda hard to find online though but i'll continue looking. do you have any diagrams or any info of the sort?

[NERO]

I think the trans I had in a Cat-a-gator was that.clutch pac on the side
with a fork ,gear inside that ran oppidise way when push all the way.
some one said it was a swather trans .sorry but I don't know what a
swather is.or seen one before?they are heavy duty tho.and bullet proof.
NERO

[AndyL]

I think the trans I had in a Cat-a-gator was that.clutch pac on the side
with a fork ,gear inside that ran oppidise way when push all the way.
some one said it was a swather trans .sorry but I don't know what a
swather is.or seen one before?they are heavy duty tho.and bullet proof.
NERO

nero do you have any pics of that setup? i don't quite exactly understand how it works. what is pushed against the gear to go the other way?

Cat

[NERO]

YES ,take a look a my album there is a photo of it .a central shaft
powered both .its there some where.
Nero

[Bw6]

Swathers

Andy, here a link of an older swather. It you search "Antique Self-Propelled Swathers" you will find a lot of info on them as well as some early patents.

It seemed that they used a double planetary gear system, with band brakes (kinda sounds like a T-20, lol) The swathers used a tricycle wheel system as shown in the link

There were many adaptations of this drive to get around patented features. Looks like they were all replaced with hydraulics.

The Combine Forum - Antique swathers

[AndyL]

thanks bw6 i will check it out.

nero i just looked up how the catagator drives, but i'll check out your pics as well.
it looks like it uses a bidirectional clutch (centrifugal clutch?). this is what i found out based on searching. there is a company called hilliard that makes reversible clutches for go-karts and industrial applications, so i'm going to give them a call and see if they have a heavy duty one.

can you describe to me a little what it's like driving your catagator and your opinion/experience with it, maybe a comparison of a t-20 if you have driven one...?

thanks a lot! this is real exciting stuff for me

[NERO]

THE trans did have reverse also ( I just did'nt know for 6 months)
you pulled the lever back at you to go left or right.pulling the
lever pushed on the forks releaseing presure on the clutch and pulling
on the brake band,(what I did'nt know because brakes were always tight)
that continure to pull back,and it slides a sun gear in place to reverse that side.it was a correct amount linkage thing.I had loosen the brakes up one
day on stands to adjust and found out.cool.
NERO

[AndyL]

sounds really cool. how do you compare it to a conventional 6x6 tranny like a t-20 or argo trans? and does the clutch say the brand on it? i want to look it up to see the specs of it.

[NERO]

The clutch was Radial like automotive,held by spring pressure,pulling
the lever back dis engaged power thur a fork also moveing and inter pilot bushing along center axis moving a sun gear in place for reverse.was very
geared down .lots and lots of tq ,no speed.the steering was great just pull
lever the way you want to travel.it was heavy duty ,and over weight.I
think it could take a lot of hp not( rpm).
NERO

[AndyL]

The clutch was Radial like automotive,held by spring pressure,pulling
the lever back dis engaged power thur a fork also moveing and inter pilot bushing along center axis moving a sun gear in place for reverse.was very
geared down .lots and lots of tq ,no speed.the steering was great just pull
lever the way you want to travel.it was heavy duty ,and over weight.I
think it could take a lot of hp not( rpm).
NERO

according to the pics i found, it was VERY geared down. so you don't think it would be a good idea for hi rpm? i'm talking up to 4,000 rpms. i imagine the gearing could be played with too.

[Robinhood02]

i didnt realize that this thred would light up so much
i have 4 of those old swathers in my boneyard
the guy that mentioned the double panetaries is right , that is the way it works as you apply brakes to the outside drum the inside begins to turn the opposite way
the only servivable part on them was the brake pads that looked like the old parking brake on an old 50s or 60s pickup or truck (a small drum on the drive shaft) the rest is all sealed inside a case and you simply changed the gear oil as needed
the entire unit was driven off a centrifical clutch on the center shaft ,however it too was mechanically set for desired overall speed
i'll get some pics and post them