T-20 Help Requested

[Rolling_X_6]

I just finished tearing apart, replacing sub-par pieces, and then reassembling an old-style T-20 for my 2000 Max IV. I checked the bands and found that all four of them were fine. I also checked all of the drums and such. I did several repairs / replaced several parts:

--replaced the two shift collars with two used ones
--replaced the four single o-ring band plungers with four used, double o-ring band plungers
--replaced the two diamond shifters with two brand new diamond shifter
--reassembled with new o-rings and main gaskets

I would have replaced the trust washers, but this model of T-20 did not have trust washers.

Okay . . . that is the background . . .

Here are the two problems that I am having:

1. The right side plungers move really hard, especially the top one. I am not sure if it will even work in the machine to drive and brake the right side. Any thoughts???

2. There is seemingly a lot of end-to-end slop in the input shaft on the right side of the T-20 where the secondary clutch pulley attaches. It has about 3/16 of an inch of end-to-end travel. I am not sure if this is normal or not. Maybe some T-20's do that, while others don't. Maybe this is a sign that I did something wrong with reassembling it. Any thoughts???

Thanks.

[brushcutter]

#1- Did you lube the o-rings on your plungers before reassembly?

#2 Some end play is normal and 3/16" is about what I have on mine- no problems out of it.

[racerone3]

when you put the bands onto the "new" plungers, you might have bent one of the ears on the plungers slightly tapping the roll pin in. i did that the first time i rebuilt a T-20. luckily i checked plungers in the bores before i put it together and fixed the issue. i would pull it apart and check. if there is metal to metal rubbing you will scratch the bore, and have issues with fluid leaking.

[onlyonce]

When replacing plungers do a dry run pushing them in and out of the plunger hole in case without the o rings. Also a good idea to do when you replace bands because sometimes removing and replacing that split pin will flare out the one end of the plunger just enough to cause problems. You will be surprised how many times you may have to make some adjustments to plungers before installing o rings.

[Rolling_X_6]

Thanks, as always, for your help, folks.

brushcutter, thanks for your feedback about the end-to-end movement. I am glad you confirmed that you have seen that, before. I certainly could NOT figure out what I could have done wrong to cause that. I am happy to think that aspect is fine.

As far as the other part . . . I guess I might just as well give in and just tear it back apart and try to check into why that plunger is not moving freely . . . and then make them do so. I DID lube up the plungers and o-rings during reassemby, brushcutter, but they still are not moving freely. But what racerone3 and onlyonce suggested are both possible. It really seems likely that what onlyonce suggested could easily have happened.

If everyone had as much crap with their Max IV with a T-20 tranny as I have had, Recreatives would never sell another one.

Thanks for the help to get mine on the trail . . . NOT "back on the trail" . . . as I have not gotten it on the trail since buying it in October . . . despite constant repairs and further break-downs during that whole time. I have not used an eight tank of gas since I have owned it.

[Rolling_X_6]

When replacing plungers do a dry run pushing them in and out of the plunger hole in case without the o rings. Also a good idea to do when you replace bands because sometimes removing and replacing that split pin will flare out the one end of the plunger just enough to cause problems. You will be surprised how many times you may have to make some adjustments to plungers before installing o rings.

You absolutely nailed that diagnosis, onlyonce. Thanks A LOT!!!

I took my T-20 all apart again, today. (Boy, I just loved the idea of that.) And, I removed each band with the plunger still attached. I took each one to over to the vise and sort of gently squeezed the two flanges together where the roll pin goes through the plunger to attach the plunger to the band. I then dry fitted it back into the hole in the case, and it worked great!!! That was all it took.

Really, all four of mine needed that--to at least a small degree--and I was not one bit rough with anything when I removed and reinstalled those roll pins while replacing the plungers when I had it apart originally. What I am saying is if that happened to me--to some degree on all four of my plungers--it could happen to anyone to at least one out of the four. I think that is probably a very common problem . . . perhaps, one that may even go undiagnosed and uncorrected, and people just live with their T-20 not handling all that well after having their T-20 apart to change bands and/or plungers.

That really should be added to the article(s) in the "How-To" section concerning rebuilding / repairing T-20's. That is just my opinion. I know I would have loved to have known about this issue to check for / resolve before reassembling everything.

Thanks again so much, onlyonce!!!

[onlyonce]

I have to say that I too learned the hard way. Final word of advise on putting the two t20 halves back together. If using the old nuts either use locktite or jam nut those bolts as I have had those loosen even though they were properly tighten upon assembly. The first sign of any loosening is usually leakage of fluid inside of tub.
.

[Rolling_X_6]

#1- Did you lube the o-rings on your plungers before reassembly?

#2 Some end play is normal and 3/16" is about what I have on mine- no problems out of it.

I am considering putting an extra washer on my T-20 main input shaft to cut down the large amount of end-to-end travel that I mentioned. I am thinking about putting this extra washer up against the notched washer that goes on the main input shaft between the right side of the center plate and the sun gear the whole way at the far end of the main input shaft . . . in other words, it would go between the notched washer that locks into the right side of the center plate and the sun gear that drives the right side of the T-20. I would just take another one of those same notched washers and grind off that tab sticking out and then just use that. It would snug things up a bit. It would not get rid of all of that travel, but you wouldn't want to get rid of ALL of the travel. But, it would get rid of the excess travel.

Any thoughts on this idea???

[Rolling_X_6]

This is sort of embarrassing . . . but, upon closer inspection, I see that my friend--who was helping me put my T-20 back together yesterday--actually put the C-clip at the far end of the main input shaft on in the wrong groove. And, by putting that C-clip in that wrong groove, it allowed for more end-to-end movement. So, as it turns out, I had no need to use any extra washers.

I thought I could have him handle that, as I did not realize there was any way to mess that up . . . I was wrong.

Just thought I would update you all on that situation.

[thebuggyman1]

I usually just blame it on the dog. lol

[Rolling_X_6]

I usually just blame it on the dog. lol

In essence, that is what I did . . . my friend isn't on this forum, so he can't defend himself.

[thebuggyman1]

In essence, that is what I did . . . my friend isn't on this forum, so he can't defend himself.

It always works best that way.
There is an old saying: You didnt screw up if you fix it before anyone finds out.

[6X6]

Glad to see it's back together. You seem to have done a quite thorough job, so you should be ready for many years of trouble free service from it now, just so long as you keep the ATF in, and bad things like oil and water out Now shake it down and hit the trails!

[Rolling_X_6]

Glad to see it's back together. You seem to have done a quite thorough job, so you should be ready for many years of trouble free service from it now, just so long as you keep the ATF in, and bad things like oil and water out Now shake it down and hit the trails!

Yeah . . . now, I just have to get the silly thing back in the buggy. I see the light at the end of the tunnel, though it HAS BEEN a long tunnel. I am just really excited about hitting those trails.

I will be in contact with you, John--once everything is all finalized--about that other T-20.

Thanks, as always, for the encouragement.

[brushcutter]

Glad to see you figured it out! Was gonna let you know I measured my endplay at 7/64", but that was with the chains on so it could be more w/o them, but I really thought I had more than that... I'm sure...well... I have slept since then