Struggling with Red Clutch Spring

[racerone3]

When I first got the tank trainer home and switched the engine to a 4 stroke (18 Briggs Vanguard), I was very happy with how it performed. At that point running a 94c with #1 weights on the engine, and the original 2 stroke clutch on the T-20.

During the rebuild I installed a new clutch with a red spring on the T-20. This clutch came assembled from Recreative and I have not had it apart. Still running the 94c on the engine. I've only gotten to run the machine a little bit, but I am not at all happy with the clutching. At wide open throttle on flat ground the machine will creep along for about a quarter mile before eventually starting to gain speed.

Is this normal for a red spring? Do I need to find some heavier weights for the primary?
any help with this would be appreciated

[jerseybigfoot]

Is the engine revving out when starting to roll? What is the engagement speed of the 94c?

[racerone3]

the engagement is around 1300RPM. It acts like the clutching is bogging the engine down. When it does start to gain speed the engine does rev out. The belt is sized correctly and tight, and I am getting WOT

[jerseybigfoot]

If it is bogging the engine the 2 stroke clutch has a has more spring pressure than the red spring which would be expected. If you can reduce the weights of the comet to engage at a higher rpm it should work better. i never played with the 94c so not sure what parts are available.

[racerone3]

It seems like the primary doesn't have enough weight to overcome the red spring. I was able to open the old secondary fairly easily by hand. I can't open the red sprung clutch at all

[jerseybigfoot]

That is a new one. I would jack the rig up and see if every thing was free. If its a bad clutch I have another one.

[racerone3]

I noticed how stiff the clutch was when I went to put the belt on. I spun the movable sheave back and tried to push the clutch open so as to get the belt down in the clutch and get it over the primary. Like I said before, I wasn't able to open it at all I can always pull the trans and put the 2 stroke clutch back on... I've always been pleased with how my other Attex machines have performed and both are running the original 2 stroke secondary. I may also pull the primary off the wild wolf and try it on the tank to see if there is any difference. I would like to pin down what issue I'm fighting

[hydromike]

This doesn't help a great deal, but I'm pretty sure I'm running the stock two stroke spring on my tank, but I'm also running a bone-stock Comet 1180 clutch from RI, so this is kind of apples and oranges.

I don't have many issues running the stock yellow spring, but I guess that's not really the point. The red spring SHOULD work fine, so my guess is that you need to lighten up the weights in the comet a bit. How many weights are you running in it? All 9? I wonder if you can pull three of the weights and see if it makes a big difference.

(oh, I can remove the secondary clutch on my tank without pulling the tranny. Are you sure you don't have enough room?)

[rdr]

hey race when i did my red spring i could not opean the tranny cluch with my had eather did not matter green orred .lewis 2 stroke cluch spring was yellow and it was shot put the red in his worked good the 94 c migght not work with the red spring try the wild woof or beths cluch and see if it makes a difference . also how munch pre load did u put on the red spring .???? might be to munch / . hope this helps robbie .

[racerone3]

Tomorrow after I get done with the spray paint refurbish on a John Deere tractor, I will start clutch swaps. The clutch came to me assembled. Purchased at RI (I think) by Tom and Lorri as a way over the top replacement for the one they borrowed last fall at Busco. I'm going to try several different pairings and see what works. The Wild Wolf will serve as the donor vehicle for a primary clutch as that is the easiest one in the fleet to remove The 94c has 6 weights. Probably stupid of me, but I never checked to see if all 6 were in there. If I don't find anything in the clutch swaps, then I will pull the red sprung clutch apart to see what is in it.

[racerone3]

Results are in!

First experiment was a 94c with less weight. I happened to have the one that exploded in Beth's max a few months ago sitting on the bench minus the one weight that we never found. Pulled 2 more weights from it and bolted it on. Result: TERRIBLE. I didn't think anything could have been worse, but this certainly was.

Second test was to try the Salisbury from the Wild Wolf (no clue what it is). Huge improvement!!!

Now for the conundrum. I really don't want to steal the clutch from the Wolf, as I've always been happy with how that machine performs. Options are to put the 94c back on the tank with the 2 stroke driven, find another Salisbury (ruled out by budget), or try the 94c in the wolf....

I'm thinking the lighter weights in the 94c might be a better match to the yellow spring in the wolf... what do the clutch experts out there think????

[amphibious drew]

Its like that electric chevy platform I saw in detroit way back before the economy crumbled. You know the one were you just put a different body on the drive train depending on your daily needs. You just need to make sure they are side by side so you can put the clutch on whatever machine your driving. Then find some really cool parts/machines to sell me and that will pay for your clutch eventually.

[jerseybigfoot]

Sounds like you need a Salisbury from an old Max. You may be able to match up some parts for a Salisbury by just changing the springs and rollers. The springs were color coded and the new Comet guy in Ca may be able to help id and get you some parts. Im sure somebody has a used but good unit ,cheep for you.

[racerone3]

I ended up putting the 94c on the Wild Wolf. still need to slot the holes in the engine mount sideways as it doesn't line up the same as the Salisbury. Took both machines for a drive the other night. I'm very happy with the tanks performance now. The Wolf lost a bit of it's "right now acceleration" but I think this package will actually be better for trail riding. She takes slightly longer to get up to speed, but should be better in mud and slop. I believe the Salisbury was weighted a bit too heavy for the yellow spring in the driven. I'm just going to run it like this for a while and see how I like it. Another clutch just isn't in the cards right now.