Kinked T20 Band

[L.D.Bruce]

took the friggin t20 apart to fix leak now I got all kinds of trouble. first I kinked the lower band "not on the clutch matierial now I can't get it to go into forward. Will the band be ok I stightend the band ? what gives with not going in forward? All this to fix a leak. I have had it apart 8 times now

[flippy]

I am not going to be much help here but it seems to me that t-20's are more trouble than they are worth.I am happy with my scrambler trans I just wish it had reverse.I bought an amphicat and I am happy that it has a reverse and not a t20 or plunger type trans.All I ever read about is how to repair t20's and adjust them.Maybe after my comment you will get some much needed help.After adding clutch material to my scrambler I am able to get it to turn on concrete with 6 new at101 tires!-good luck-

[Don]

I won't get into a "my transmission's better" arguement, but I'll suggest that there may be more T20 transmissions in use right now than all the other styles combined. I don't have any stats to back it up, but I'd be very surprised if it weren't true. With all that use and some of it not-so-gentle, you're bound to find the weak spots.

I've had to straighten out bands and so far haven't had any problems, LD. I can't be sure why it isn't going into forward- are you shifting it at the spool, or with the shifter? Will it go into neutral and reverse? Is it just one side, or both?

[6X6]

took the friggin t20 apart to fix leak now I got all kinds of trouble. first I kinked the lower band "not on the clutch matierial now I can't get it to go into forward. Will the band be ok I stightend the band ? what gives with not going in forward? All this to fix a leak. I have had it apart 8 times now

How bad a Kink? If it was bad, and broke it could cause the issue. Do you have BRAKES on that side in reverse?? If you lost forward, and brakes in Reverse on that side, sure sounds like the band is done or broken.

IMHO the T-20 is a good trans. Once you get to know it they're actually quite simple to work on,but like anything, when you start working on it, you may have "growing pains"

[jpswift1]

I am not going to be much help here but it seems to me that t-20's are more trouble than they are worth.I am happy with my scrambler trans I just wish it had reverse.I bought an amphicat and I am happy that it has a reverse and not a t20 or plunger type trans.All I ever read about is how to repair t20's and adjust them.Maybe after my comment you will get some much needed help.After adding clutch material to my scrambler I am able to get it to turn on concrete with 6 new at101 tires!-good luck-

More trouble than they're worth? Ummmm, no, that can't be more incorrect. There are so many articles on the T-20 because it's so widely used in so many machines. As a matter of fact there is no transmission out there that is more reliable, more poplular, one that has the ablility to handle high horsepower, or one that has been in production as long as the T-20 has. Borg Warner spent lots of money developing it and it has been used since 1969 with hardly any major changes made to it. And the T-20 transmission is still in production today. I've seen T-20's in 8x8 AATVs, big heavy 6 wheelers, machines with tracks, hooked to high horsepower 2 stroke engines, and even hooked up to 4 cylinder car engines. Try that with a Scrambler transmission and it'll never be able to compete with a T-20. I know this because I've seen it first hand The T-20 can even drive one side of the wheels in reverse and the other side forward, and it'll easily be able to turn on asphalt or concrete without an issue. I've owned MANY AATVs and I've found that the T-20 is the best AATV transmission ever made, and MANY members here on the site will agree. If you've got your Scrambler and Amphicat transmission dialed in and working well, great, but it's been proven that neither of those will ever measure up to the performance of a T-20.

Now, LD Bruce, maybe we can help you out with your issue. First off pictures would help us help you diagnose it. Are the bands installed properly? Try moving the shifting spool with a screwdriver through the hole where the diamond shifter goes through and see if it's engaging and that the teeth on it are all in tact and good shape. We'll help you get to the bottom of this. Let us know.

[L.D.Bruce]

Thanks JP I will get some pics in the morning the screw drive only moves the shifter to reverse and n. It's something I did puting it back . do you think the band will be ok it kinked before the clutch material started I was able to get it back in shape. the bands appear to be near new as all the company logos are still on the material I'm only having problems on the non clutch side I did not take the other apart

[flippy]

Not trying to start arguments.It just seems that t-20's start out very expensive in used unknown shape.I did a lot of searching for a t-20 and It seems that a rebuilt one is about $600,I have made choices about which 6x6's I buy.It seems that many of the aatv's with the t20 are in just as bad shape as any of the non t20 aatvs.I would rather spend $100 for a junky scrambler than $500 for a junky machine with a t20.All the t20 praise just reminds me of myself when I used to sing about how great the old jeep cj7's were.I dumped a lot of money on them jeeps,then went out and bought a $500 87 bronco that could destroy the 8000$ v8 jeep I had.With the plastic abs bodies always needing repairs for cracks,I just dont understand the indestructible reputation of a t-20 being put in a vehicle that will crack or break the minute it hits a rock or tree.I notice many newer 6x6's with cracked bodies etc.I enjoy all 6x6's and I just hate to see people frustrated,sometimes its ok not to have the best or strongest.I had a 1942 ford 8n tractor that I gaurantee could do more than a t20 vehicle-Backhoe front end loader etc,All for $1500.The city made me sell it,I then got into six wheelers for fun.I spend a lot of time on this website and it has helped me alot.Many great owners,I was just making an observation.The scrambler transmission is not the strongest but its simple and can be completly rebuilt with new bearings for under $50.Anyway-I apologize for ticking anybody off.It seems that richards relics makes a lot of money on those t20 bands.

[Guy]

Well, the bands spiral a certain way inside the case around the drums.
Get that wrong and it can get expensive quick if you score a drum!

[thebuggyman1]

Not trying to start arguments.It just seems that t-20's start out very expensive in used unknown shape.I did a lot of searching for a t-20 and It seems that a rebuilt one is about $600,I have made choices about which 6x6's I buy.It seems that many of the aatv's with the t20 are in just as bad shape as any of the non t20 aatvs.I would rather spend $100 for a junky scrambler than $500 for a junky machine with a t20.All the t20 praise just reminds me of myself when I used to sing about how great the old jeep cj7's were.I dumped a lot of money on them jeeps,then went out and bought a $500 87 bronco that could destroy the 8000$ v8 jeep I had.With the plastic abs bodies always needing repairs for cracks,I just dont understand the indestructible reputation of a t-20 being put in a vehicle that will crack or break the minute it hits a rock or tree.I notice many newer 6x6's with cracked bodies etc.I enjoy all 6x6's and I just hate to see people frustrated,sometimes its ok not to have the best or strongest.I had a 1942 ford 8n tractor that I gaurantee could do more than a t20 vehicle-Backhoe front end loader etc,All for $1500.The city made me sell it,I then got into six wheelers for fun.I spend a lot of time on this website and it has helped me alot.Many great owners,I was just making an observation.The scrambler transmission is not the strongest but its simple and can be completly rebuilt with new bearings for under $50.Anyway-I apologize for ticking anybody off.It seems that richards relics makes a lot of money on those t20 bands.

Alex brings up some good points here. It is very easy buy a low end machine and wind up with more money into it than it's worth. I have heard that Richards gets $1200 for a rebuilt t-20 and thats approx. what R.I gets for a new one (also rumor). $600 for a rebuilt from a reputable individual is reasonable due to the price of parts(bearings, relined bands etc.) To put this all in perspective, compare it to the price of a car transmission......You will think that $600 is cheap.
On the other hand, if you step up to a medium priced machine........$600 is very reasonable for the extra performance you get from a t-20.

Hey Alex: if you make it to Ashtabula, we will go for a ride. I will change your mind about t-20 machines and what they can do.
If you can't make Ash., just come on over to my place....we can ride here.

[msafi65]

I've been rebuilding automatic transmissions for over 30 years and the t20 is a cake walk. Take the trany out of your average minnivan and that is a mess! I haven't done an Admiral yet but list price is 4k + and the parts list covers three pages in my book.
Now to help get LD get riding again. If the shift collar won't go into forward the drive plate may be backward and have some burrs on it that won't let it into gear. The drive plate( the one with three pin holes) beveled side of teeth face the shift collar. I've seen them in backwards a lot and usually work ok, may shift hard. For the band inspect very carefully at weld end for any small cracks If ok , run it. Good luck ,keep learning

[flippy]

Thanks for the invite.I really need to get together with you or get to ashtabula.I did some investigating and found out that the old 15 acres of gun range land by my house is owned by some investment group in new york,also attached is 10 acres owned by detroit edison,also next to that is 33 acres of land owned by some real estate company that planned on building a subdivision years ago but it now sits vacant.The land is full of hills ,a large pond,even railroad tracks.I see dirt bikes and atv's there all the time.I am going to be taking my scrambler over there to join in the fun.I know I need to get some pics.The land is in macomb township michigan the property number is 08-25-476-004.Address is 24545 21 mile road.The land is unusable due to all the gun shells or casings all over the and making it unbuildable.I walked it and there are shot gun shells and clay pigeons still scattered about.I used to go there with my dad 35 years ago and watch him shoot his ww2 bolt action rifles.Anyway google map shows it.I just thought I would let people know in case they ever get in the macomb county area.

[L.D.Bruce]

Ok I took it back a part this morning and found the forward problem I broke the shaft off the inner drum. So now due to one leak I need a inner drum and a inner band any clues to where I can find these items?