test rode a Argo Frontier

[jerrynuss]

I can crawl now with the t20 but I would like to be able to hit 60mph and not be at 8000 rpm.

[pepper]

I am in BC where slippery rocks stumps and tight trails are the norm I can spin really easy if i give it gas. I would like to have full clutch engagement with plenty of power and be going walking speed .
If you ever do rock crawling in a 4x4 you will klnow exactly what i mean. Even if your truck has the power to do what you need to do in high gear very often the low gear will give you better control and traction in the event of slow slippage.
With a set of tracks and very good traction a low gear would be good and far less work on the engine , if you used you vehicle like a tractor then you would really see the benifits.

A two speed transmission would be the simplest way of haveing the option of real slow (top speed of 10mph) and going fast in high gear. The mere mention of changes to the Golden T20 get men insecure and hackles up but the fact remains that it can be improved upon .

I would love to regear my machine for a top speed of say20 kmh just to get the bottom end i want.

[jerrynuss]

I appreciate what you are saying. What I hear most frequently is I wish it were faster so a high speed would be most desired by the people I deal with.

[Mike]

I can't say that I have ever been in a situation where I wish the T20 had a low gear. It will take me up any vertical hill that I want. In fact, if the hill is too steep, the Max will sit there and the tires will just slowly spin and dig down. In other words, I have never gotten it to bog down or stall out, traction is lost before that happens.

What kind of Max do you have and what motor is in it. Maybe we're not comparing apples to apples or perhaps we are in two completely different types of terrain?

To me, Jerry hit the nail on the head with the shifting. That is the only real negative that I find.

As for normal ATV manufacturers producing AATVs, I don't think they would be any more inexpensive. When you compare an AATV's price to a four wheeler they do look more expensive but if you look at the side by side market, they are right in line. Tear the plastic off an average side by side and they aren't very complicated either.

[Mike]

Sorry, I got interrupted and didn't finish my post until you had already answered my question about terrain I see your point there. By the way, how did you know this post was making me insecure

Also, I do feel that most AATVs are overpriced but I also feel that they are in line with other side by sides which I also feel are overpriced. But hey, I'm cheap

[pepper]

I now have an Attex chief with a 4stroke conversion the original ratio for 4st and the 2st Attexes appear to be a 25% differnce and with the belt and converter i have it is about the same as a stock 4stroke as far as i can figure out . I had another machine with a 2 stroke to fourstroke conversion and that had a larger driven side and only a top speed of about 20 (if that) and that was more to my likeing. As i said before i can spin the tires without a problem as i have the power I would just like to spin them slower (about the same speed as my bobcat would be nice) but have the option of going fast if i wish.

It isnt about being able to spin the tires it is about have a very controllable slow steady power to the ground the same way a tank or a bulldozer delivers it. anyone that uses low geared machinery can attest to the fact that low gearing can be a real benifit.


I would have more use with low range then high range around my place , if i lived somewhere open i could see a high range being good . if one had a high / low range they could have the best of both worlds . If i could find some kind of aux trans i could adapt and if i could get a hold of an 8x8 attex trainer it would be perfect.

As it stands an 8x8 Attex with a hi - low t20 that i could split shift and whippers suspension would suit just about right

[pepper]

As for normal ATV manufacturers producing AATVs, I don't think they would be any more inexpensive. When you compare an AATV's price to a four wheeler they do look more expensive but if you look at the side by side market, they are right in line. Tear the plastic off an average side by side and they aren't very complicated either.

the Maxes are more reasonable in price but the argos will fetch $20,000+ dollars here so i was compareing it with something like a Kawasaki Teryx or a Yamaha Rhino SXS which is about 25-30% less here , I am pretty sure that if one of the big names came out with a rhino or other such vehicle with full amphib swamp busting abilities there would be a bunch of folks that would want them.

realistically it wont happen anytime soon but one can dream

[mightymaxIV]

Two speed T-20

I wish the T-20 had a lower range also. I rarely get my max up to top speed but the terrain I run around in down here demands some pretty low gearing and as a compromise I have geared my max 20%. I would also like to see the max IV with about 6-8 " more wheelbase the engine sitting directly behind the T-20 and larger tires with smaller sprockets that would allow at lease 12" of ground clearance and a smooth bottom that does't get hung up on roots and stumps. Me, I am into the rough stuff. The machine I described wouldn't be all that great for sport riding. It's all in what you want and what your gonna do with it.

[pepper]

I have seen some awfully big drivens on snowmobiles I wonder if that could be adapted.

[Roger S]

There are times a t20 could use a low range, slow technical stuff too slow, steep and rough to have the belt engaged fully. You just have to live with slipping the belt and not having crawl capabilities. John Schwab illustrated this at Haspin recently in his II, up a scary V'd ravine you wouldn't want to make a mistake in. He slipped the belt, maintained control even with several wheels in the air, and declared at the top, "I love the smell of rubber in the morning, burning belt rubber".

[Meinfield]

Hey Guys,

All this talk about t-20's and gearing, so I did some calculations to figure out the final crawl ratio in my hustler, thought this might be fun.
Check it out:

Clutch ratio x T-20 ratio x main axle x drive axle = crawl ratio

I am running a Duster Driven Unit that is larger than the stock Salisbury. It is 3.49:1
The T-20 output shaft spins 1 revolution for every 6.25 input spins. This is a approx. (I could not find any data on the t-20) 6.25:1
The sprockets on the t-20 have 15 teeth, the ones on my axles have 28, or 1.87:1
The other axle sprockets have 26 teeth or .93:1

So, 3.49*6.25*1.87*.93 = a crawl ratio of 38:1
If I did the math correctly, that's fairly respectable gearing. It is about the same as my old Toyota Landcruiser in 1st gear 4wd low.
Now I know why at 6000 rpm I am only traveling 45 mph!

[pepper]

for crawling around stuff you would want double numericlly that ratio, My truck is about 84 to one and many guys i know here are running 100-1 and up to 200-1 on the 4cyl buggies and believe me when i say that low gears are worth their weight in gold when you need them.

It really amounts to what it is to be used for thats why i figure the two speed T20 would work great and be suitable for any terrain and track combo you could throw at it.

[mightymaxIV]

T-20

for crawling around stuff you would want double numericlly that ratio, My truck is about 84 to one and many guys i know here are running 100-1 and up to 200-1 on the 4cyl buggies and believe me when i say that low gears are worth their weight in gold when you need them.

It really amounts to what it is to be used for thats why i figure the two speed T20 would work great and be suitable for any terrain and track combo you could throw at it.

Give me a T-20 with lower gears! I don't want to slip my $85.00 belt under any circumstnces!

[mightymaxIV]

T-20

the Maxes are more reasonable in price but the argos will fetch $20,000+ dollars here so i was compareing it with something like a Kawasaki Teryx or a Yamaha Rhino SXS which is about 25-30% less here , I am pretty sure that if one of the big names came out with a rhino or other such vehicle with full amphib swamp busting abilities there would be a bunch of folks that would want them.

realistically it wont happen anytime soon but one can dream

Hey I agree here there is a lot of room for improvement. Ground clearance, suspension, heavy duty componets, reduced maintenace, high quilty chain adjuster adjusters, high and low range, better engines, machines for sport ridng and utility. If I were building the machines you see real AATV tires that would mud and swim. I wish Honda or Kawasaki would get into this market!!!

[m350]

It's a Good thing the BigFoot has a High/Low range Going down the Pond spillway,,lots of Big Rocks,,in low climbs over them easy,,,thru a trail we made in the Pines one spot the machine just fits,(an 8x8 would not make it) between 3 trees,,very tight,,having to spin/turn the machine to just clear the tree in front,,it will not do it in High,,,where probobly a Max would turn thru it without a problem.

Anybody know the size's comparing a ARGO BigFoot, to a Max II or Max IV, length vs width of each ?