Avenger Transmission/alternator/braking issues

[DerekF]

Well guys, I just got back from my week hunting in the mackenzie mountains. Due to work, I haven't been able to go for 5 years. I will write up an "Argo/moose" story in a bit but I had a couple of questions I wanted to post out there to get some thoughts on first.

First of all, my 2005 avenger has 400 hrs on it. It is meticulously maintained and I do not run it hard, if anything I am super easy on the machine for fear of breakdowns (once bitten, twice.......). I take almost every spare part available with me as it is a remote location, except for a transmission and an engine.

So I ran into these issues, and I don't mind saying it was very disappointing to have them come up as it put a damper on the trip.

Day one I lost pressure in both brake cylinders, first the left then the right. I was running the machine for about 2 hours straight, but only about 3mph and not hard on the braking. It was warm out and my heat was getting up to 195+ on the gauge. I have new Dot5 in the reservoirs, and both master cylinders are newer. The steering came back after the machine cooled down. So my question is, what would cause that? Moisture in the lines? How can a guy fix it. I am sure it is heat related so maybe a fan blowing on the master cylinders? FYI, it also happened to another avenger and two hdi's that day. in all cases the steering or braking in the hdi's came back.

Next issue, my machine stopped charging. It was running 14.4 on the gauge. Then dropped to 12, and slowly down to 10 over the day. It never quit as it seemed to be generating enough to power the engine. The only thing i did was spray some chain lude on the chains, and my have gotten some on the alternator belt (I have the alt kit on mine). If I took the battery lead off, it would jump to 14.4 on the gauge at time, but other times it would drop to 10, even with RPMs up. VOltage regulator? Doesn't the Kohler motor have its own built in alternator, plus I have the kit so that should give me a redundant system. But it is is a voltage regulator failure, it would not matter if the alt is working, the system would not charge. Thoughts?

Finally, here the real bad one. I was driving slow, in a straight line and bang, the transmission clunks and comes out of gear. I can "put it in" low and reverse, but it does not engage. I had high range so at least I could get back to camp. The transmission rattles a bit bit high range seems to work. Oil is clean. I know the transmission has to come out, but any ideas what it might need?

The irony is if I go there next year, It will either be in a new hdi or I will bring an extra transmission and engine. I am not impressed with the robustness of the machine. I am impressed however, with the capabilities of the machine. I'll post some pictures of the hunt soon. Oh, and I saw 8 shooter bull moose but those three issues turned my around one by one and i ended up heading home without a moose. We got 5 caribou though. Nice, but I am a moose hunter.

any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Derek

[Mike]

Starting with the brake/heat issue, one thing that happened on mine was a loose or corroded connection in the fuse block. It would sporadically cut out power to the fan while I was running and that allowed the brakes to overheat. I lost steering in a tight trail and hit a tree because of it. It took me quite a while to realize what had happened because the fan came back on when I turned the key on the next time so I never thought to check that. I finally figured it out by pressing down on the body of the Argo right above the fuse block while the key was on and the engine off. I just happened to lean over it there and the fan cut out. I know that's a rare possibility that the same thing happened to you but you never know.

For the transmission, check out this thread for the issue I had with mine that other early models have had as well: http://www.6x6world.com/forums/argo-...tml#post146166

Again, don't know if these are your problems but I'm sharing just to throw some ideas out there. Good luck with the repair(s).

[Tomo]

hi
Brake fade/pedal loose can come from
1/ brake fluid has to much moisture in the fluid and it is boiling causing ""bad pedal"" Change/flush fluid every 2 years . U must bleed the new fluid thru not just change it in the resivour .
2/ brakes are actually overheating even though u have recently new fluid . This is insufficient cooling . A problem in some argos . Some have fans some donot .

Ultimately the box needs stripping and inspection . [The older 1990 boxes reverse idler and lay shaft jumping out of gear or just unable to engage ]
The charging issue may just be the altenator brushes have worn out . OR The altenator needs to be "excited "" to work ,if this is not happening it will not charge , typically a wiring issue .

tomo

[philipatmaxfour]

Hi Derek, I don't have any answers for you but I do feel your pain. My 2007 avenger has not had any brake problems or tranny problems (touch wood). There is no better meat than moose. I wish you well getting the answers you need.

[ARGOJIM]

I would also go with brake fan issue, this could explain both fade and charging issues if it's going bad.

[DerekF]

Update,

I talked to an "argo expert" about the transmission problems and that coupled with a few threads (thanks Mike) about failing earlier model Avenger transmission I thought it best to take the plunge and get the new 3.3 transmission that I have been wanting. I will rebuild the other one as a back up. He seemed to indicate that the earlier models used oil-lite bushings that would fail prematurely and can cause the issues I have.

The over heating brake system has seemingly been solved by adding an exhaust vent kit (part 602-71). They say that fixes the issue as it drops the temperature in the engine compartment by 40 degrees on average. Makes sense and worth a try. I will update you all.

The lack of charging seems to be a loose belt/oil on belt issue. Duhhhh. Of note, I learned that in that case, you can disconnect the alternator from the "upgraded Alt kit" and reattach the Kohler alternator on the engine itself as a back up. again.......duhhhhhhh.

live and learn. I let you all know how these things shake out when I start putting parts in next week.

[glen1971]

The more you use it, the more you have to tinker with it, the better owner/operator you'll become.. And it will save you in the long run, by not having to take it to a dealer for minor repair work..
The best thing with this forum, is the quantity of experience that other owners have gained and can share...

[wrench9]

You sound like you have all the problems solved except for the tranny pre 07 models have a small snap ring that lholds low gear and reverse in place the snap ring has came out of its grove. there is an update different shaft or have yours grove cut wider and a larger snap ring this will fix your problem hope your low gear did not get chewed up to much on the drive out

[DerekF]

Hello all,

Been a LONG time since I have posted here. Haven't been able to get out with the Argo as much as I would like. Life gets in the way I suppose. In any case, I wanted to resurrect this thread as it may be of some help to others, and I did have a question.

The brake fade issues I had seems to be gone away once i put my hood fan in, I may add the reservoir blower fan kit also to make sure, but the problem does appear to have been caused by overheating the oil and it boiling and/or cooking the master cylinder and caliper seals.

The no-charging issue is embarrassing, it was a loose alternator belt. ouch.

The final issue was the transmission. I replaced the older transmission with a new 3.3 that I had wanted to put in there for a while. I like the low gearing for sure, but man, is it slow when you have to get somewhere!

The reason I am bringing the post up again is that I broke open the older transmission and for sure the clip let go, as was the issue on many pre-2007 avenger transmissions. It chewed up a couple of gears as i had no choice but to drive it out. I copied a post from Mike from a while back about the issue. Just an FYI. Everything else in the transmission looks new.



"The first generation models had a clip on the input shaft of the transmission that can come loose. If that happens, it allows one of the forward gears to slide on the input shaft to where only the edge of the teeth mesh with the other gears. It can break the teeth. The newer models used a retaining ring to hold a clip in place to prevent this from happening. They also went from a three dog gear to a four dog for better durability. I think the change happened sometime in late 2006 or early 2007. My Avenger is a 2006 model and it had the older style transmission. I had the clip come off of my input shaft and it chewed up the gears.

I don't know how often this happened but it was obviously enough to necessitate a redesign. Just something to keep in mind. The transmission isn't difficult to upgrade to the new style retaining clip but if the teeth get torn up before you do the upgrade, you have to purchase several new gears because the three dog style are no longer manufactured so you have to upgrade both input gears and the center dog to the four ear style.

Here is a photo of my transmission. You can see the clutch dog and the two gears that have to be replaced: "

[Mike]

Hello, welcome back! Thanks for the update. Hopefully your new 3.3 will serve you well.

[DerekF]

Thanks, its good to be back. I put my adair tracks on today and plan on testing the 3.3 transmission in some marsh areas. Will post videos.

I did have one question: The transmission I just pulled apart only had 200 hrs so everything else looks new, bearings are perfect. I think what you said in your post Mike happened to mine, the retaining-clip let go (part 107-10 or 107-12 from the pieces in the bottom). I assume the retaining clip failing is what caused the gears to slide and the transmission to fail. The original parts I think I need to replace are argo parts 34-103, 34-106, 34-107. I see they have been superseded with 34-127,34-128,34-129. Is there anything else I may need to change due to those part upgrades? Reading your post Mike, and I correct that the retaining clip upgrade is simply a strong clip, not a new shaft design? And the new dog clutch is 4 cog, not 3?

[Mike]

I replied in the other thread regarding the input shaft. I don't think that will need to be upgraded. My memory is terrible and that was several years ago so please don't hold me to this but if I remember correctly, the original clip was a spring clip and the new clip is a locking/retaining clip. And you are correct that the new dog gear is a four dog vs the older three.