Idler chain issue...

[mitchamus]

Hi guys,

I'm having some trouble getting one of my idler chains on.

The right one (as you are sitting in it) went on easy enough,

But for the life of me - I can't get the left one in.

The chain is definitely the right length (triple checked)

I even made a tool that used a bolt, and two claw like hooks welded onto some nuts.

This worked so that when you turned the bolt, one claw moved towards the other and brought the chain ends together...

I tightned this till it was very VERY tight... and it was still short by about 3-5mm or 1/4-1/5th of an inch.

I'm at a loss as to what to try next

I tried putting in an extra link in and two clips, but once the idler chains are tightened, the powerpack is canted over to the right badly. This works, but I'm unhappy with it.

Would lifting the whole powerpack up from the front engine mount a few inches reduce the distance between the the sprocket and jack-shaft?? or just make it longer?

Is this an indication that the power-pack frame is twisted?? or that soemthing else is wrong?


if anyone has something else to suggest - I am all ears....

(FYI - the mood I'm in - "set fire to it" is a valid suggestion at this stage )

cheers,
Mitch.

[Mike]

I don't recommend the "set fire to it" approach (yet).

When you were checking the chain length, were you counting the number of pins or going off the length of the original chain? Just want to make sure you were counting pins. If you were, and the pin count is correct, the next thing to verify is that you are installing the chain with the tires off the ground so that you can properly take the slack out of the chain. If you are doing both of those correctly, add a half-link in the chain and run it like that for 30 minutes or so. That should allow the chain to stretch slightly and then you can remove the half-link and run the correct length chain.

[mitchamus]

I counted the pins, I never had the old chains to compare them too anyhow.

it's the exact same length at the left one.

I am doing it with the wheels on the ground though?

How would I add slack? loosen the bearing holders?

I will raise the wheels off the ground and try again this afternoon.

[akpride]

I believe you need to loosen the back base bolt and top support pry up and tighten then adjust on the front

[Mike]

I counted the pins, I never had the old chains to compare them too anyhow.

it's the exact same length at the left one.

I am doing it with the wheels on the ground though?

How would I add slack? loosen the bearing holders?

I will raise the wheels off the ground and try again this afternoon.

Sorry, last night when I replied, I was thinking this was the chain between two axles where you clearly say otherwise. That won't help in this case.

Which Argo are you working on? The powerpack on the Avenger has three nuts/bolts that you have to loosen. The one at the front of the machine acts as a hinge for the powerpack. The rear two hold the powerpack in place. Once you loosen all three, you have two bolts at the rear of the powerpack that you can adjust in and out to raise the powerpack up and down and tighten or loosen your drive chains. Is this the same setup that you have?

If so, am I understanding correctly that you have lowered the powerpack as close to the frame as it will go using the adjustment bolts and you still don't have enough room to get the chain pulled together?

[mitchamus]

yes, sorry it's a conquest

all of the powerback nuts are loose, and the two idler chain tensioners are bottomed out (i.e. there is no chain tension at all)

this is why it's so baffling as to why I can't get it to go on. the right one was easy-ish to get on...

... you have lowered the powerpack as close to the frame as it will go using the adjustment bolts and you still don't have enough room to get the chain pulled together?

yep - that's correct - looking to get any hints about how to just get a tiny bit more slack....

[Rock Doctor]

This is a little wierd. Does it look like the Trans/Plate is lowered squarly? Wondering if there is something jamming and not letting the power pack all the way down.

Any chance of a pic or two?

RD

[mitchamus]

the power pack is sitting up a little bit on the left side. about 3mm

i will take some pics this arvo.

[msafi65]

Make sure the big square washers on power pack bolts arnt turned up on a corner. They can hold it up a bit.

[ARGOJIM]

Make sure the big square washers on power pack bolts arnt turned up on a corner. They can hold it up a bit.

[mitchamus]

ok so here are the pics as promised...

The first one is a front on shot of the two idle adjusters. You can see the difference in the heights if you look at the distance between the bolt and the idler bolt head. the left is much higher up that the right.
tensioners.jpg

here is a closeup of the left idler chain tensioner
left_side.jpg

here you can see that this zip tie fits easily under the power-pack frame
zip.jpg

This is a shot of the mid mount. It looks like the square washer is holding up the frame, but it freely moves
mid_mount.jpg


This is the very front mount, I can't see it sitting up here at all.
front_mount.jpg

after I took these pics, I removed all of the power pack bolts and wiggled the whole power pack, including jaming the thing down trying to see if it was just not seated properly - no luck.

[Mike]

That is weird. I'm just reaching for things now, typing out loud:

- Could one of jackshaft flange bolts (bearing retainer bolts) be hitting the bottom of the power pack on that side?
- When you wiggled the power pack, were you able to pick it up and let it drop back down with a lot of force?
- When the power pack got to that point in the pictures, did it come to a sudden stop like it was hitting something solid or did it come to a slow stop like it was wedged in there?

Sorry that I'm not more help.

[mitchamus]

Im pretty sure the jackshaft bearing retainer bolts won't foul on the power pack, but I'll have a feel under there and see.

I dropped it back down with some force, enough to seat it properly I would think, but the right idler chain is still on, so only an inch or so movement at the back of the power pack up and down.

I lifted the front end via the exhaust a fair bit (4-5 inches) and dropped it down hard - still the same.

and it made a sound like it was coming to a dead stop, definitely a metal on metal sound. but the right side is bottoming out.... which make me think that the power pack frame is bent... (but hope not *touch wood*)

I will take a FBH (!&$#ing Big Hammer) to it this afternoon and see If I can tap it down at all.

[Mike]

Let us know if you are able to tap it down at all. I hope it goes into place. It's just hard to believe that the power pack would be that bent/warped. I know you are probably trying to avoid it but you may end up having to pull the motor and transmission out so you can get a better look. Then you could also inspect the power pack mount in greater detail and tell if it's really bent or not.

[mitchamus]

OK so - pretty sure the power pack frame is bent.

If you take a look at these photos...

You can see that the right hand side of the power pack frame is canted to the right.

Look where the transmission is bolted to the frame, and then you will see that the front tube on the powerpack runs square to the bend.

In this first pic, I stood up a scrap piece of steel next to it, hopefully to show any twist.
bent1.jpg

another view
bent2.jpg