Argo falling behind

[foxvalley]

ODG just came out with the argo 6x6 "SE" for $8,995.00 to directly compete with the SxS market,and I have a hard time understanding this, as both units are so vastly different, not only in design, but in application. The SXS is made for comfort and speed,and ease of getting in and out, these are just a few qualities that are impossible for the argo to compete with,as they are made for something completely different. An argo is made to get you in and out without getting stuck, in just about any terrain, or weather condition,deep snow, deep swamp etc.,and speed,comfort (suspension),and ease of getting in and out, like an SXS, will likely never happen in an amphibious unit, as they are made for different applications.
An argo XTV,exterme terrain vehicle,is just that,an extreme terrain vehicle,made to go just about everywhere a SXS can't. I like the fact, that I own a unit that will get me anywhere I need to go, any time of the year,and in any weather condition,unlike the fair weather ATV market,that makes you think they can go anywhere, and do anything.....great marketing!
Can't do much about the cost of an argo,but some of the SXS are just as pricey,but you can look back 20 years, and see that an old conquest, or vanguard still holds over 50% of it's value,something that you will never see with a SXS! Expensive,yes,but anything that can hold it's value for so long is a great investment,better than most any car or truck manufacturer today.
Noel,going to miss you again at mud nationals,also sounds like Mike and Tim aren't going,but Tye sounds like he will be there.

[Noel Woods]

Hey man:
Thanks for jumping in on this, I am glad to hear Argo is getting the price down on at least this model, that should move some machines. You are right about the marketing irregularity, it does seem strange, although that's about where a Polaris Ranger and similar models start.
Sorry you guys won't make it to the Mud Nationals this year. Will definitely miss you guys and all the fun. Maybe next year you will make it again.

[foxvalley]

Hey man:
Thanks for jumping in on this, I am glad to hear Argo is getting the price down on at least this model, that should move some machines. You are right about the marketing irregularity, it does seem strange, although that's about where a Polaris Ranger and similar models start.
Sorry you guys won't make it to the Mud Nationals this year. Will definitely miss you guys and all the fun. Maybe next year you will make it again.

Yes,planning on next year. Glad you are going, just in case Tye decides to turn his conquest into a submarine again.........

[Coast2Coast]

One thing to consider is that ODG only sells a handfull of these units. I saw the figure in a document somewhere how many units they sold last year, it was a shockingly low figure, only 150 or so if I remember correctly? Maybe it was 1500? Still, considering there are 300,000+ UTVs sold in North America alone every year, there's a lot more money there to develop such a machine and bring costs down, while argo still chugs along with it's 1960esque chain/sprockets/lawn mower engine for $30,000.

[North Country Tough]

[plott hound]

if only Honda would develop an aatv,now that would be something!

[curtisbyrne]

wow.... you really put the argo into reality when you said that lol north country tough.

[foxvalley]

One thing to consider is that ODG only sells a handfull of these units. I saw the figure in a document somewhere how many units they sold last year, it was a shockingly low figure, only 150 or so if I remember correctly? Maybe it was 1500? Still, considering there are 300,000+ UTVs sold in North America alone every year, there's a lot more money there to develop such a machine and bring costs down, while argo still chugs along with it's 1960esque chain/sprockets/lawn mower engine for $30,000.

I'm guessing more like 1,500 units,last I heard a while back, there are aprox. 600 new units coming into the states every year. No idea if the 1,500 includes the worldwide market.
As far as ODG chugging along with it's lawnmower engine and chains,why fix it if it's not broken.There is a lot to be said for KISS.(keep it simple stupid)I'ts not that ODG isnt keeping up with technology,you just can't get away,or incorporate the features of a SXS into an argo,and still have an argo.
How many brands of the 300,000 utvs sold in the US. have a space program,or better yet a military program,and contracts,and who was one of,if not the first to design and build the first 3 wheeler,from where all other atvs where morfed from?ODG. The gear division is just another example where they make extremely tight tolerance gearing, the smallest is in just about every gas meter,to some of the biggest used in the logging industry,not to mention the trannys in the argos.
The argo right now has a fairly narrow market,one of the reasons being it's more of a utilatarian vehicle,get you in, and get you out,of just about any situation,where the larger UTV market is geared towards speed,comfort on high ground,where most of the market is. Having a farm, and lots of low ground,I never understood the use of a 4 wheeler, or SXS when one of my tractors does the same thing, just slower,and the argo gets me around everywhere else.

[allwheeldrive]

As far as ODG chugging along with it's lawnmower engine and chains,why fix it if it's not broken.There is a lot to be said for KISS.(keep it simple stupid)

Does the 6 / 8 wheeler really apply to KISS? Does any off road vehicle apply any less to Kiss than a 6 / 8 wheeler? I figure we all enjoy the challenge of driving, using, and maintaining something too temperamental for the "normal" consumers which make us unique, which we clearly like.

If it goes off road KISS would apply to things like, dirt bikes, VW baja bugs, ATCs, TerraJets maybe. SxS have a LOT going on at once, but they are designed to be pretty efficient like the automobile. Any time I've jacked a 6x6 up with the body off and seen all those chains, clutches, cables, bearings, tensioners all whirring, spinning and clunking along I think to myself "No wounder I work on this more than drive it"

Though you are right, I don't know how you can make a ridged skid steer vehicle much simpler at a price some people could afford.

[curtisbyrne]

i think we can all agree on this. to go amphibious you obvious ally need to sacrifice things like speed and comfort but you cant compare and Argo to a side by side or anything.... an Argo is its own breed its an xtv not an atv or utv. compare Argos to Argos because there will never be an end to threads like these where they ask whats better? a side by side or an Argo.... its impossible to compare them when they are both 2 completely different vehicles. so there i think Argo is a great success and will be for the future,yes its always behind in the side by side market but the aatv or xtv market they are right at the top.

[crossbowme]

You and I may may want more exotic machines but that really isn't Argo's problem. There problem is visibility. Since I bought my Argo I have had dozens of people come up to me and ask about Argo. Almost all of them said they were going to find a dealer and check them out. They really need to get the word out like Can Am did with their Spyders. They also need to get dealers who know their product and really want to sell Argos. I have been to four dealers so far and all them sold Argos as an after thought. When you ask about them they'll try and sell them. Otherwise they have some other product they're trying to push. They need to get them into the big power sport dealerships.

[foxvalley]

You and I may may want more exotic machines but that really isn't Argo's problem. There problem is visibility. Since I bought my Argo I have had dozens of people come up to me and ask about Argo. Almost all of them said they were going to find a dealer and check them out. They really need to get the word out like Can Am did with their Spyders. They also need to get dealers who know their product and really want to sell Argos. I have been to four dealers so far and all them sold Argos as an after thought. When you ask about them they'll try and sell them. Otherwise they have some other product they're trying to push. They need to get them into the big power sport dealerships.

Crossbowme,you really hit the nail on the head here with dealers knowing the product,and getting the word out via advertising,but the big powersport dealers,IMO are not the way to go.
You don't go to a chevy dealer to buy a ford,and you don't buy a ford from someone who drives a subaru,so why would you go to a Polaris dealer with one argo stuck way back in the corner that nobody knows anything about? On the flip side, there is such a narrow market for the argo that it's hard to make a full time business out of just dealing argo,and thats why you see so much of this.
After having a 1995 vanguard for years and putting on over a thousand hours on it,I still had to do a ton of research on which unit I wanted to upgrade to,and what acc./track system was going to work for my application. I did find a dealer that only delt in argo,had all the answers,and sold me what I needed, and that whole experience was awesome.
ODG is very aggressive at trying to get new dealers,but a dealer is only as good as the knowledge....and experience that he has on an argo,and the time and commitment that they are willing to put into it,but sadly,this just isn't the case with so many.For the price you have to pay today for an argo unit,it shouldn't be some dealers "afterthought product"you just need to dig thru the pile of rocks to find the jem.

[allwheeldrive]

i think we can all agree on this. to go amphibious you obvious ally need to sacrifice things like speed and comfort

I think that is a fair statement, if there was a better way to make something float and go off road it would have come out by now. I could argue that today's SxS will probably outperform a non-tracked stock AATV in the kind of mud and muck that accompanies amphibious operation. But it is reasonable to point out that any sort of professional operation isn't going to expect their employees to wade neck high in frigid water not to mention the fact that SxS will utterly rut and tear up the worst roads into oblivion before getting stuck. An AATV while potentially not quiet as good in such circumstances will never have the same level of environmental impact making them far more suited for actual day to day work on the wet same trails.

Also it should be noted I am only considering non-tracked AATVs As Tracks are a modification even if offered from the factory. Granted once tracks go on... there is NO comparisons to ANY vehicle, even tracked SxS only have a tiny % of the capacity of a tracked Argo.

I think it's true though sales are the hardest part. Even if Argos are "better" off road. Most people today into off road motorsports are so spoiled with speed they will sacrifice functionality for that speed high and go with a SxS, so yes maybe Argos are fine it's just the purchasing audience that are the problem lol

[foxvalley]

I agree,4 wheels can compete with 6 or 8 wheels, we see it all the time in Jacksonville TX,( without tracks). At this point, I believe the operator to make all the difference with his experience,or lack thereof. One of the best argo drivers w/o tracks was from AK,and he went...just about all the same places as the tracked vehicles could,it was fun to watch him pick apart a mudhole. He also won a big trophy/cash at one of the races at Mud Nationals.

[Coast2Coast]

I could argue that today's SxS will probably outperform a non-tracked stock AATV in the kind of mud and muck that accompanies amphibious operation.

I have to disagree there in general. I've never used tracks on my machines in the summer and they outperform all side by sides and atvs in the muskeg type mud around my area. I watched them ram and tear all moose season with the big $30,000 high lifter side by sides. There is one particular stretch of about 1km where a group of 3 of these big side by sides tried to access and they took over 2 hours to travel it, winching every 5 minutes and tearing up the skeg in a chaotic fashion scaring every game animal within 10 miles with all the noise. They were so beat they gave up and turned back to camp and didn't hunt at all that day lol. We traveled this same trail with ease at 4am on our stock 8x8s about 10 times over the season and it was a 10 minute trip .

The argos will get screwed up in ruts where a side by side with 30" tires will appear to outperform it but you just have to learn to keep yourself from hi centering in those ruts.