Floating Sprockets?

[Avenger Bob]

I am really confused. I just had to replace the double sprocket on the second axle of my 2005 Avenger. This sprocket floats on its axle and that seems logical. However the single sprocket on the same axle has a set screw but it was not tightened when I went to remove it and it was floating on the axle too. In fact when I checked all the other sprockets on all the other axles they were all loose and they all float. The service manual is vague and says the “front” ones float. Does that mean the ones on the front axle only or the front sprockets on each pair of driving and driven sprockets throughout the whole machine? Too further confuse the manual says that after a certain date the set screws were discontinued.
Does anyone know which sprockets should float and which should be locked in place on an 2005 Avenger?
Thanks

[Buzz]

many of the front axle sprockets are supposed to float. The sprockets on axles 2/3/4 should should all use set screws. They have tensioners and also things can get crowded, you don’t want things moving too much. In a pinch, hose clamps around the axle can do the job if you’re in the bush.
If you’re front chain still has a tensioner (probably does on your vintage Avenger), I would be inclined to use the set screw. Many people never touch the set screws until they are pulling an axle, only to find out they were loose and not doing their job at all. Most of the time you’re okay, but I have had sprockets slide into the frame. Maybe sidehilling plays a role, I don’t know.

[Murray40]

Agree. My 04 avenger has floating front sprockets (dealer instructions). All other sprockets have set screws, however it is quite common to find they have backed off. I torque them as much as the hex can take but they still become loose. I thought of “lock-tite” but application requires Clean threads. Not sure how that would work? Btw my front chains have tensioners.

[Avenger Bob]

Thank you gentlemen. It appears that all my sprocket set screws had, just as you both said, worked loose over time. The service manual’s reference to set screws being discontinued after 2009 seems to be a reference to the set screws in the inside bearing flanges, not in the sprockets. My confusion was compounded when I saw that my replacement double sprocket did not even have a hole for a set screw. It seems that the same replacement part is used for the front axles as on the second axles so that sprocket on the second axle now also must float.
I suppose the manual’s note raises another question, should I remove the set screws in all my inner bearing flanges. I note from other threads that this reduces the side loads on the inner bearings when the frame flexes.

[Buzz]

I think you might be able to get away most of the time w/o using sets screws on axle bearings, but I’ve never liked that idea. I think it encourages the inner race to not turn with the axle, therefore the bearing isn’t working like it should. They may turn together initially, or for awhile depending on how smooth or how much resistance the bearing has, but eventually the bearing is going to stiffen up and the increased resistance may cause the smaller 1” diameter end of the axle to spin inside the inner bearing race. Same thing with outers. Pretty soon whatever little bit of grease or anti seize that was on the axle end when installed (95% of which gets pushed off anyway during install) no longer lubricates as a fall back. Metal on metal turning is never good. Inside bearing inner races and axle ends failing to come apart usually results in an axle that has to be cut. Sometimes special bearing pullers/pushers can be used, heat, penetrating oil, etc (other times they are unsuccessful), and putting that kind of stress against the opposite side of the little frame or opposite inner bearing isn’t preferable. If it’s an old wimpy axle, I just cut it out. There should be no reason an axle seizes into an inner bearing race. Rust/water is one reason, failure to use inner bearing set screws (over time) may be another. Just a thought.
Then again, if they were to heat up and get sticky, then they would probably start turning together again😊. But disasssmbly will be a pain.
If for no other reason than to limit potentially buggering up the axle surface down the road and making tear-out more of a pain, I always use the set screws.
Commonly, people will opt to leave set screws out on older style outer bearings (wrong) because it’s easier, and they don’t want to side-load the bearing if they locate it improperly and then tighten their outer flange bolts.
I feel you get a longer lasting part (bearing) that works as it should if you go ahead and use the set screws. Blue loc tite is good, (Never Red on Argo bearing set screws). More than once I’ve had to get red loc tite set screws out (shaking head)

[Avenger Bob]

Buzz, it has taken me a while to fully digest your thoughts on set screws and bearing failure. Thank you.
Since all my bearings have their set screws in and tight, I will leave them that way. I am firm believer in the principle that if ain’t broke don’t fix it.