Argo Springer

[whipper-ag]

That was great, George.

Unless I see something really , really STUPID, I have always thought it's best to not knock it until you try it.

I wish I had a 1300 lb MOOSE laying around. I promise you it will carry it & haul it out in 1/2 the time. In fact the extra weight will make it a softer ride with no added stress to the drive train, & I'm still waiting to bend my 1st axle.

Whipper

[Roadtorque]

We thought of this concept 20 yrs back, but due to the massive increase in weight with all the springs/ shocks/ brackets and u-joints, to gain what?

It all depends on your application of riding. Increased traction, ground clearance, and comfortable ride, in addition to speed is why most people buy atvs/utvs. If you spend very little time floating your aatv then gaining traction, ground clearance and a more comfortable ride is probably more than worth the decreased ability to swim.

4 inches of ground clearance, while at the same time seriously jeopardising your River/Lake/Swamp crossing ability due to said weight increase, said to hell with it, it looks great and all, but my winch will deal with most everything an extra 4 inches of ground clearance would do for me,(barring deep snow, but thats what tracks are for)

Well not all people enjoy exiting their vehicle and stepping into the conditions that got them stuck. I would much rather have the ability to drive through it because of additional ground clearance than have to walk through it to winch myself out...but that's just me

I don't make a habit of straddling logs length ways. Very interesting concept, i fit had any merit I'm sure ODG would have put it out years ago,as we would have at Northern Alberta All Terrain when we were open...

I'm sure if there were any merit to the argo HDI then ODG would have put it out years ago right? Listen, even if the technology exist for your product any smart business is going to release numerous upgrades to keep their customer buying their product.If Northern Alberta All Terrain understood business so well, maybe they wouldn't be out of it

NO-ONE is trashing this machine,It all boils down to WHY you got an ARGO in the first place (You can see in GALLERY why I did).To see the concept put in practice is awesome, but there are plenty of other machines out there you can tear around on

Bushpig, your argument is not very valid when looking at people and machines. People buy trucks and lift or lower them. People buy ATVs and put on snorkel kits. People buy UTVs then spend twice as much altering them to their type of driving. No one bought the wrong vehicle, they just made the already great vehicle more suitable for their intended use. If you dont like the idea of a springer for you application that is fine, but it doesn't make it a poor idea.

Designing a one terrain vehicle is feeding a need for a very specific,and small, market and your bound to never making any money. All terrain vehicle makers understand this concept and build their product to please the majority and design accessories so the buyer can make their vehicle fit the intended application better

if a Cadillac ride is what you want. SPRUNG suspension will do absolutely nothing to increase your speed, if that's what your looking for, buy a QUAD

. Adding suspension my not increase your speed, but it does allow your vehicle to handle faster speed.

You can only "Power Up" a CHAIN DRIVEN rig to a point, after that your just destroying it, chain stretch, bearing wear, snapped/broken axles ect.
Go back to the Gallery Section and tell me how much ground clearance I would have gained with them Moose I have in MY FACTORY RIGS in a SPRINGER ,NONE.

Not many people drive continuously drive around with a moose in their argo. Moose carrying argo driver's probably weren't the ones to invent and install suspension for their machine.

Humans always have a habit of trying to re-engineer things that don't need it. You can "SPRING" your ARGO all day long and actually believe it will take you over ROCKY TERRAIN faster, you still have ARGO rims and tires on, what about popping beads ect. I have been running these rigs since 1976 and after the first trip or two cannot remember a time when I've come home with my teeth rattled or a sore spine. Bent/Broken axles, I've had more than my fair share, back when I was 13 -16 and using them as a great 'TOY" commonly known as driver abuse, Each to their own is the way. For me, Ontario Drive and Gear did it right, getting rid of the roll pinned axle sprockets for Splined shafts ect.

That's right, and for others ODG will have done it right when they offer suspension for their vehicles. Still for others ODG will have done it right when they increase top speed on land, for others on water.

I'm More than happy with my 83 and 84, 8 wheelers, and would take this RIG "on" in my home turf any day. Your approach speed to crossing/climing over anything would still be the same unless you want to be over the hood, ground speed, no difference, probably slows you down somewhat, So unless your a die hard out in the bush geriatric patient with severe spinal problems, save your money.
CERTIFIED ARGO NUT.

You could say the same thing about any accessory that argo currently offers. Unless your santa clause, or his neighbor, dont buy tracks, save your money right? I'm there are some people that will never buy tracks from argo's accessory line that would instantly buy a suspension kit. It all depends on your application and driving style.

Not been hard at all, I think all or at least most of my points were VALID. I bought an ARGO to be "STAR TREK" to boldly go where no one has gone before.
It just seems silly to add a couple of hundred pounds of steel, shocks, universal joints ect, to a machine that even though it was designed to float

Well it also seems silly to add a couple hundred pounds of track to a machine designed to float. Not to mention you are now inhibiting the only part (tire tread) of the machine designed to push it across the water. But people still buy tracks, the just stay out of the water. Just like the people who add suspension to argos

does not give you that much 'FREEBOARD' at the best of times, Yes its probably a lot less work modifying one than welding a frame up from SCRATCH, but if you want a buggy for flying around on, then you bought the wrong machine. As I posted on the "LOST POST" I have had my ARGO in the ATHABASCA RIVER, in FT McMURRAY NORTHERN ALBERTA CANADA for a 30 mile run to my trapline a few times, (I love adventure). This been an ARGO site, was just my take on the situation. We (Northern Alberta Argo Allterrain, when we were in business)) had this concept years ago, its just seems silly to take away one of the benefits of owning a machine with its capabilities (Fully capable of traversing most any waterway) for the sake of ride comfort, drop the p.s.i in your tires a bit if you have a sore back.

You keep saying you thought up the concept of aatv suspension. I agree with RD who mentioned you seem a little jealous on a missed opportunity. Surly you dont think you were the first person to have that idea do you?

As for the statement about added traction???
am I missing something,

Yes you are

THE ARGO still weighs the same, all you have added is a ton more weight,shock absorbers are for the upstroke mostly, what you gain, traction wise, with the sprung pressure would be negligable at best, in fact as stated in another post, it would be more of a detriment than an asset, in the country I use mine. JUST A POINT OF VIEW, is all.

Yep it is just your point of view, and that doesn't make it right for everyone else. That's whats important to remember.

The only thing I've found that improves the performance of mine, ie in swamp, deep mud ect
is one of them DAMN BIG MOOSES that you can see in gallery, doesn't matter if I bottom out, is like the energiser bunny, keeps going and going.
CERTIFIED ARGO NUT.

If I understand you right you say a few hundred pounds of moose meet in the back of an argo improves performance but a few hundred pounds of suspension decreases performance?

[George]

Just a few words from some members of 6x6World.

[Roadtorque]

Yea, you do have some good points no doubt.

As far as traction. I imagine when you run over a rock with a tire, the closest tire to the one on the rock comes off the ground. with suspension it wouldnt. Or when climbing over a hill or bank on top part when tires are ussually in the air it may help there too.

Bingo More wheels would stay in contact with the ground during the teeter-totter effect when going over obstacles or up a hill giving better traction.

[LarryW]

Not been hard at all, I think all or at least most of my points were VALID. I bought an ARGO to be "STAR TREK" to boldly go where no one has gone before.
It just seems silly to add a couple of hundred pounds of steel, shocks, universal joints ect, to a machine that even though it was designed to float, does not give you that much 'FREEBOARD' at the best of times, Yes its probably a lot less work modifying one than welding a frame up from SCRATCH, but if you want a buggy for flying around on, then you bought the wrong machine. As I posted on the "LOST POST" I have had my ARGO in the ATHABASCA RIVER, in FT McMURRAY NORTHERN ALBERTA CANADA for a 30 mile run to my trapline a few times, (I love adventure). This been an ARGO site, was just my take on the situation. We (Northern Alberta Argo Allterrain, when we were in business)) had this concept years ago, its just seems silly to take away one of the benefits of owning a machine with its capabilities (Fully capable of traversing most any waterway) for the sake of ride comfort, drop the p.s.i in your tires a bit if you have a sore back. As for the statement about added traction????
am I missing something, THE ARGO still weighs the same, all you have added is a ton more weight,shock absorbers are for the upstroke mostly, what you gain with the sprung pressure is negligable, its not going to help you one bit in deep mud, muskeg ect, in fact as stated in another post, it would be more of a detriment than an asset, in the country I use mine. JUST A POINT OF VIEW, is all.
CERTIFIED ARGO NUT.

Yea, you do have some good points no doubt.

As far as traction. I imagine when you run over a rock with a tire, the closest tire to the one on the rock comes off the ground. with suspension it wouldnt. Or when climbing over a hill or bank on top part when tires are ussually in the air it may help there too.

[Bushpig]

Not been hard at all, I think all or at least most of my points were VALID. I bought an ARGO to be "STAR TREK" to boldly go where no one has gone before.
It just seems silly to add a couple of hundred pounds of steel, shocks, universal joints ect, to a machine that even though it was designed to float, does not give you that much 'FREEBOARD' at the best of times, Yes its probably a lot less work modifying one than welding a frame up from SCRATCH, but if you want a buggy for flying around on, then you bought the wrong machine. As I posted on the "LOST POST" I have had my ARGO in the ATHABASCA RIVER, in FT McMURRAY NORTHERN ALBERTA CANADA for a 30 mile run to my trapline a few times, (I love adventure). This been an ARGO site, was just my take on the situation. We (Northern Alberta Argo Allterrain, when we were in business)) had this concept years ago, its just seems silly to take away one of the benefits of owning a machine with its capabilities (Fully capable of traversing most any waterway) for the sake of ride comfort, drop the p.s.i in your tires a bit if you have a sore back. As for the statement about added traction????
am I missing something, THE ARGO still weighs the same, all you have added is a ton more weight,shock absorbers are for the upstroke mostly, what you gain, traction wise, with the sprung pressure would be negligable at best, in fact as stated in another post, it would be more of a detriment than an asset, in the country I use mine. JUST A POINT OF VIEW, is all.
The only thing I've found that improves the performance of mine, ie in swamp, deep mud ect
is one of them DAMN BIG MOOSES that you can see in gallery, doesn't matter if I bottom out, is like the energiser bunny, keeps going and going.
CERTIFIED ARGO NUT.

[LarryW]

NO-ONE is trashing this machine,It all boils down to WHY you got an ARGO in the first place (You can see in GALLERY why I did).To see the concept put in practice is awesome, but there are plenty of other machines out there you can tear around on, if a Cadillac ride is what you want. SPRUNG suspension will do absolutely nothing to increase your speed, if that's what your looking for, buy a QUAD. You can only "Power Up" a CHAIN DRIVEN rig to a point, after that your just destroying it, chain stretch, bearing wear, snapped/broken axles ect.
Go back to the Gallery Section and tell me how much ground clearance I would have gained with them Moose I have in MY FACTORY RIGS in a SPRINGER ,NONE. Humans always have a habit of trying to re-engineer things that don't need it. You can "SPRING" your ARGO all day long and actually believe it will take you over ROCKY TERRAIN faster, you still have ARGO rims and tires on, what about popping beads ect. I have been running these rigs since 1976 and after the first trip or two cannot remember a time when I've come home with my teeth rattled or a sore spine. Bent/Broken axles, I've had more than my fair share, back when I was 13 -16 and using them as a great 'TOY" commonly known as driver abuse, Each to their own is the way. For me, Ontario Drive and Gear did it right, getting rid of the roll pinned axle sprockets for Splined shafts ect. I'm More than happy with my 83 and 84, 8 wheelers, and would take this RIG "on" in my home turf any day. Your approach speed to crossing/climing over anything would still be the same unless you want to be over the hood, ground speed, no difference, probably slows you down somewhat, So unless your a die hard out in the bush geriatric patient with severe spinal problems, save your money.
CERTIFIED ARGO NUT.

Boy, you really dont like springers huh. Maybe he just wanted to be different.


Im just glad us humans re-engineered the wooden spoke wagon wheels to something that helps float.

With a springer you could air up your tires more so you wouldnt loose your bead.

Normally you beef up when power up or should at least.

I see good and bad points on the springers. As well as anything else we have.

I just feel your being kinda hard on it. You need to soften it up. Get it, lol. springer=soft.

[duckhunt81]

Just throwing this idea out there

This idea dawned on my the other day, I thought this would be just as good a place than any to ask you guys what you think about the idea.

These ATV track system like this LiteFoot ATV Rubber Track Conversion Systems
Has anyone every thought about installing these on a 6x6. It can only be done on a springer, I think this would give added hieght and comfort to a springer. Just an idea I wanted to throw out there. A 6x6 with 6 of these tracks, I think, would be a heck of a machine.

Now who will be the one to protype it Whipper??

[Roger S]

Sort of off topic.. I drove a conquest with the 24" frontier tires.. it wasn't a springer, but the best ride I've ever had on 6 or 8 wheels besides short, half flat runamuks. Rode a lot better than what I have.

[Roadtorque]

NO-ONE is trashing this machine, to see the concept put in practice is awesome, but there are plenty of other machines out there, you can tear around on if a Cadillac ride is what you want. SPRUNG suspension will do absolutely nothing to increase your speed, if thats what your looking for, buy a QUAD. You can only "Power Up" a CHAIN DRIVEN rig to a point, after that your just destroying it, chain stretch, bearing wear, snapped/broken axles ect.
Go back to the Gallery Section and tell me how much ground clearance I would have gained with them Moose I have in MY FACTORY RIGS in a springer,NONE. Humans always have a habit of trying to re-engineer things that don't need it. You can "SPRING" your ARGO all day long and actually believe it will take you over ROCKY TERRAIN faster, you still have ARGO rims and tires on, what about popping beads ect. I have been running these rigs since 1976 and after the first trip or two cannot remember a time when I've come home with my teeth rattled or a sore spine. Bent/Broken axles, I've had more than my fair share, back when I was 13 -16 and using them as a great 'TOY" commonly known as driver abuse, Each to their own is the way. For me, Ontario Drive and Gear did it right, getting rid of the roll pinned axle sprockets for Splined shafts ect. I'm More than happy with my 83 and 84 8 wheelers, and would take this rig on in my home turf anyday. Your approach speed to crossing/climing over anything would still be the same unless you want to be over the hood, ground speed, no difference, probably slows you down somewhat, So unless your a die hard out in the bush geriatric patient with severe spinal problems, save your money.
CERTIFIED ARGO NUT.

Besides a more comfortable ride the biggest appeal of adding suspension is additional traction.

[Bushpig]

NO-ONE is trashing this machine,It all boils down to WHY you got an ARGO in the first place (You can see in GALLERY why I did).To see the concept put in practice is awesome, but there are plenty of other machines out there you can tear around on, if a Cadillac ride is what you want. SPRUNG suspension will do absolutely nothing to increase your speed, if that's what your looking for, buy a QUAD. You can only "Power Up" a CHAIN DRIVEN rig to a point, after that your just destroying it, chain stretch, bearing wear, snapped/broken axles ect.
Go back to the Gallery Section and tell me how much ground clearance I would have gained with them Moose I have in MY FACTORY RIGS in a SPRINGER ,NONE. Humans always have a habit of trying to re-engineer things that don't need it. You can "SPRING" your ARGO all day long and actually believe it will take you over ROCKY TERRAIN faster, you still have ARGO rims and tires on, what about popping beads ect. I have been running these rigs since 1976 and after the first trip or two cannot remember a time when I've come home with my teeth rattled or a sore spine. Bent/Broken axles, I've had more than my fair share, back when I was 13 -16 and using them as a great 'TOY" commonly known as driver abuse, Each to their own is the way. For me, Ontario Drive and Gear did it right, getting rid of the roll pinned axle sprockets for Splined shafts ect. I'm More than happy with my 83 and 84, 8 wheelers, and would take this RIG "on" in my home turf any day. Your approach speed to crossing/climing over anything would still be the same unless you want to be over the hood, ground speed, no difference, probably slows you down somewhat, So unless your a die hard out in the bush geriatric patient with severe spinal problems, save your money.
CERTIFIED ARGO NUT.

[LarryW]

Alot of the hi dollar sandrails are using these now, it allows the outboard cv to be further out relaxing cv angle. Wheel manufacturers will custom make anything you want for a price. Larry you must have a thicker wallet than I do I see more clearance issues with an 8" wheel than with a 15" or 17".

lol,If it wasnt for my ID, I wouldnt need a wallet.

Any hoot, Once you have 5000+ invested in the suspension, another 1000 isnt so much for rims is it.

Yea, I dream.

[lewis]

To spring or not to spring

I have a 2006 Avenger and for the ride it is decent but it will beat you, knowing this when i bought is was no big thing. I really enjoy my machine and it has it's purpose. It goes through mud great and water and just about anything else. Very pleased with its performance.

Then i went to Arizona in February 09 with George my good buddy to our friends Whipper and Bridget's play ground which by the way were very gracious hosts. Never did i expect to drive the Spider for 2 days of riding. I took some getting used to. As in the past when i would drive the Argo and i would hit a moderate hole with any speed you would have your -----handed to you. With the Springer i first drew up when i would come to these type bumps but there was nothing . The springer just rolled right over it, now this was GREAT!!!! Took a little to get adjusted to it but at the end of the day i could have ridden more!!!! No back pain no sore butt. Went out the next day same thing. Got the chance to race the Spider at Ashtabula, loved it!! Bought one. I really enjoy my Avenger but the machines are for two different uses. I can't wait to finish the Orange Crush and get it on the track and trails.

The Argo suspension kit i think will give you a little of both worlds. There are times in our rides where 4 extra inches of ground clearance would have meant the difference in getting stuck and not getting stuck. I would consider a suspension kit for my Avenger also. Drive a springer one time and you will be hooked. I haven't met anyone who has driven one of Whipper's springers and said i hate the ride. It's like "Wow",.... i gota get one of these. I think the Argo springer would pretty much be the same thing. Just my two cents.

[Model Citizen]

Too bad all the neat comments that got posted on this thread got wiped out when Mike started the site update.

So I'll say it again. butt & back comfort & like Whipper says " not feeling like your spine is jammed up in your skull after a hard day of riding is the #1 upside of a springer. More ground clearance is nice, but not everyone desires or needs it if they just like tooling around at 5-10 mph all day long. How this Argo Springer is driven & what kind of terrain it is driven on will determine how happy he is with the mods & costs incurred to make it happen. My personal experience says he's thrilled with the results. And he did a good job. Oh, & in the 2+ years that we have been riding our springers (& we have the videos to prove it) we have NEVER bent an axle. I consider that another plus. Now, we may not have a bunch of logs to cross out in the desert & it's hard to find mud, but if a conventional machine tried to keep up with us while riding on our rocky terrain, chances are he'd have a few less teeth when he caught up. Going fast just for recreation is fun, too. Just hope we get to see more videos of its performance.

Bridget

"Bigfoot" note Whipper's wanted to springer a 6 wheeler for 35 years. Well, I guess it took awhile, but he never gave up. 6 times already. He just did it.

[thebuggyman1]

Wheels

What if you could find a wide wheel with a positive offset. It would suck some of the A-arms inward.
(Positive offset is when the hub mounting surface is toward the front or wheel side of the wheel. Normally found on front wheel drive cars)

Alot of the hi dollar sandrails are using these now, it allows the outboard cv to be further out relaxing cv angle. Wheel manufacturers will custom make anything you want for a price. Larry you must have a thicker wallet than I do I see more clearance issues with an 8" wheel than with a 15" or 17".