Argo Springer

[Mike]

bcsteve initially posted this but since it was lost this week I thought I would revive the Argo Springer thread. Hopefully the owner will be stopping by this week but we will see. Perhaps Martwell from sentier 6x6 forum will chime in as well.

Here are the original videos and images that bcsteve posted:

http://s1013.photobucket.com/albums/af253/santaria733/Argo%20suspension/?action=view&current=Testdelasuspension.flv

http://s1013.photobucket.com/albums/af253/santaria733/Argo%20suspension/?action=view&current=141_4187.flv

You can view the entire album here: Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket

[Bushpig]

We thought of this concept 20 yrs back, but due to the massive increase in weight with all the springs/ shocks/ brackets and u-joints, to gain what? 4 inches of ground clearance, while at the same time seriously jeopardising your River/Lake/Swamp crossing ability due to said weight increase, said to hell with it, it looks great and all, but my winch will deal with most everything an extra 4 inches of ground clearance would do for me,(barring deep snow, but thats what tracks are for) I don't make a habit of straddling logs length ways. Very interesting concept, i fit had any merit I'm sure ODG would have put it out years ago, as we would have at Northern Alberta All Terrain when we were open...

[LarryW]

We thought of this concept 20 yrs back, but due to the massive increase in weight with all the springs/ shocks/ brackets and u-joints, to gain what? 4 inches of ground clearance, while at the same time seriously jeopardising your River/Lake/Swamp crossing ability due to said weight increase, said to hell with it, it looks great and all, but my winch will deal with most everything an extra 4 inches of ground clearance would do for me,(barring deep snow, but thats what tracks are for) I don't make a habit of straddling logs length ways. Very interesting concept, i fit had any merit I'm sure ODG would have put it out years ago, as we would have at Northern Alberta All Terrain when we were open...

Good points but for the hardcore user like you it. It does have disadvantages. But for the the average Joe who wants a better ride on the recreational amphibious vehicle its awesome.

[mudbug3]

The places that I,ve taken my Max IV, and the unknown things that are often underneath the waters surface, is why a springer kit on my machine would not be practical. The A arms would also get snaged more easily than an axle would that runs parallel to the lower tub. Your water speed would also greatly be diminished as well, because the A arms force the wheels lower into the water. The lower your tires sit in the water, the worse your water speed becomes. In thick mud the extended width of the A arms would cause a LOT more drag, greatly increasing the chances of getting stuck. For the majority of people that own an amphib, a springer kit would be more of a disadvantage than an advatage.

[LarryW]

The places that I,ve taken my Max IV, and the unknown things that are often underneath the waters surface, is why a springer kit on my machine would not be practical. The A arms would also get snaged more easily than an axle would that runs parallel to the lower tub. Your water speed would also greatly be diminished as well, because the A arms force the wheels lower into the water. The lower your tires sit in the water, the worse your water speed becomes. In thick mud the A arms would cause a LOT more drag, greatly increasing the chance of getting stuck.

What if you could find a wide wheel with a positive offset. It would suck some of the A-arms inward.
(Positive offset is when the hub mounting surface is toward the front or wheel side of the wheel. Normally found on front wheel drive cars)

[thebuggyman1]

Wheels

What if you could find a wide wheel with a positive offset. It would suck some of the A-arms inward.
(Positive offset is when the hub mounting surface is toward the front or wheel side of the wheel. Normally found on front wheel drive cars)

Alot of the hi dollar sandrails are using these now, it allows the outboard cv to be further out relaxing cv angle. Wheel manufacturers will custom make anything you want for a price. Larry you must have a thicker wallet than I do I see more clearance issues with an 8" wheel than with a 15" or 17".

[Model Citizen]

Too bad all the neat comments that got posted on this thread got wiped out when Mike started the site update.

So I'll say it again. butt & back comfort & like Whipper says " not feeling like your spine is jammed up in your skull after a hard day of riding is the #1 upside of a springer. More ground clearance is nice, but not everyone desires or needs it if they just like tooling around at 5-10 mph all day long. How this Argo Springer is driven & what kind of terrain it is driven on will determine how happy he is with the mods & costs incurred to make it happen. My personal experience says he's thrilled with the results. And he did a good job. Oh, & in the 2+ years that we have been riding our springers (& we have the videos to prove it) we have NEVER bent an axle. I consider that another plus. Now, we may not have a bunch of logs to cross out in the desert & it's hard to find mud, but if a conventional machine tried to keep up with us while riding on our rocky terrain, chances are he'd have a few less teeth when he caught up. Going fast just for recreation is fun, too. Just hope we get to see more videos of its performance.

Bridget

"Bigfoot" note Whipper's wanted to springer a 6 wheeler for 35 years. Well, I guess it took awhile, but he never gave up. 6 times already. He just did it.

[lewis]

To spring or not to spring

I have a 2006 Avenger and for the ride it is decent but it will beat you, knowing this when i bought is was no big thing. I really enjoy my machine and it has it's purpose. It goes through mud great and water and just about anything else. Very pleased with its performance.

Then i went to Arizona in February 09 with George my good buddy to our friends Whipper and Bridget's play ground which by the way were very gracious hosts. Never did i expect to drive the Spider for 2 days of riding. I took some getting used to. As in the past when i would drive the Argo and i would hit a moderate hole with any speed you would have your -----handed to you. With the Springer i first drew up when i would come to these type bumps but there was nothing . The springer just rolled right over it, now this was GREAT!!!! Took a little to get adjusted to it but at the end of the day i could have ridden more!!!! No back pain no sore butt. Went out the next day same thing. Got the chance to race the Spider at Ashtabula, loved it!! Bought one. I really enjoy my Avenger but the machines are for two different uses. I can't wait to finish the Orange Crush and get it on the track and trails.

The Argo suspension kit i think will give you a little of both worlds. There are times in our rides where 4 extra inches of ground clearance would have meant the difference in getting stuck and not getting stuck. I would consider a suspension kit for my Avenger also. Drive a springer one time and you will be hooked. I haven't met anyone who has driven one of Whipper's springers and said i hate the ride. It's like "Wow",.... i gota get one of these. I think the Argo springer would pretty much be the same thing. Just my two cents.

[LarryW]

Alot of the hi dollar sandrails are using these now, it allows the outboard cv to be further out relaxing cv angle. Wheel manufacturers will custom make anything you want for a price. Larry you must have a thicker wallet than I do I see more clearance issues with an 8" wheel than with a 15" or 17".

lol,If it wasnt for my ID, I wouldnt need a wallet.

Any hoot, Once you have 5000+ invested in the suspension, another 1000 isnt so much for rims is it.

Yea, I dream.

[Bushpig]

NO-ONE is trashing this machine,It all boils down to WHY you got an ARGO in the first place (You can see in GALLERY why I did).To see the concept put in practice is awesome, but there are plenty of other machines out there you can tear around on, if a Cadillac ride is what you want. SPRUNG suspension will do absolutely nothing to increase your speed, if that's what your looking for, buy a QUAD. You can only "Power Up" a CHAIN DRIVEN rig to a point, after that your just destroying it, chain stretch, bearing wear, snapped/broken axles ect.
Go back to the Gallery Section and tell me how much ground clearance I would have gained with them Moose I have in MY FACTORY RIGS in a SPRINGER ,NONE. Humans always have a habit of trying to re-engineer things that don't need it. You can "SPRING" your ARGO all day long and actually believe it will take you over ROCKY TERRAIN faster, you still have ARGO rims and tires on, what about popping beads ect. I have been running these rigs since 1976 and after the first trip or two cannot remember a time when I've come home with my teeth rattled or a sore spine. Bent/Broken axles, I've had more than my fair share, back when I was 13 -16 and using them as a great 'TOY" commonly known as driver abuse, Each to their own is the way. For me, Ontario Drive and Gear did it right, getting rid of the roll pinned axle sprockets for Splined shafts ect. I'm More than happy with my 83 and 84, 8 wheelers, and would take this RIG "on" in my home turf any day. Your approach speed to crossing/climing over anything would still be the same unless you want to be over the hood, ground speed, no difference, probably slows you down somewhat, So unless your a die hard out in the bush geriatric patient with severe spinal problems, save your money.
CERTIFIED ARGO NUT.

[Roadtorque]

NO-ONE is trashing this machine, to see the concept put in practice is awesome, but there are plenty of other machines out there, you can tear around on if a Cadillac ride is what you want. SPRUNG suspension will do absolutely nothing to increase your speed, if thats what your looking for, buy a QUAD. You can only "Power Up" a CHAIN DRIVEN rig to a point, after that your just destroying it, chain stretch, bearing wear, snapped/broken axles ect.
Go back to the Gallery Section and tell me how much ground clearance I would have gained with them Moose I have in MY FACTORY RIGS in a springer,NONE. Humans always have a habit of trying to re-engineer things that don't need it. You can "SPRING" your ARGO all day long and actually believe it will take you over ROCKY TERRAIN faster, you still have ARGO rims and tires on, what about popping beads ect. I have been running these rigs since 1976 and after the first trip or two cannot remember a time when I've come home with my teeth rattled or a sore spine. Bent/Broken axles, I've had more than my fair share, back when I was 13 -16 and using them as a great 'TOY" commonly known as driver abuse, Each to their own is the way. For me, Ontario Drive and Gear did it right, getting rid of the roll pinned axle sprockets for Splined shafts ect. I'm More than happy with my 83 and 84 8 wheelers, and would take this rig on in my home turf anyday. Your approach speed to crossing/climing over anything would still be the same unless you want to be over the hood, ground speed, no difference, probably slows you down somewhat, So unless your a die hard out in the bush geriatric patient with severe spinal problems, save your money.
CERTIFIED ARGO NUT.

Besides a more comfortable ride the biggest appeal of adding suspension is additional traction.

[Roger S]

Sort of off topic.. I drove a conquest with the 24" frontier tires.. it wasn't a springer, but the best ride I've ever had on 6 or 8 wheels besides short, half flat runamuks. Rode a lot better than what I have.

[duckhunt81]

Just throwing this idea out there

This idea dawned on my the other day, I thought this would be just as good a place than any to ask you guys what you think about the idea.

These ATV track system like this LiteFoot ATV Rubber Track Conversion Systems
Has anyone every thought about installing these on a 6x6. It can only be done on a springer, I think this would give added hieght and comfort to a springer. Just an idea I wanted to throw out there. A 6x6 with 6 of these tracks, I think, would be a heck of a machine.

Now who will be the one to protype it Whipper??

[LarryW]

NO-ONE is trashing this machine,It all boils down to WHY you got an ARGO in the first place (You can see in GALLERY why I did).To see the concept put in practice is awesome, but there are plenty of other machines out there you can tear around on, if a Cadillac ride is what you want. SPRUNG suspension will do absolutely nothing to increase your speed, if that's what your looking for, buy a QUAD. You can only "Power Up" a CHAIN DRIVEN rig to a point, after that your just destroying it, chain stretch, bearing wear, snapped/broken axles ect.
Go back to the Gallery Section and tell me how much ground clearance I would have gained with them Moose I have in MY FACTORY RIGS in a SPRINGER ,NONE. Humans always have a habit of trying to re-engineer things that don't need it. You can "SPRING" your ARGO all day long and actually believe it will take you over ROCKY TERRAIN faster, you still have ARGO rims and tires on, what about popping beads ect. I have been running these rigs since 1976 and after the first trip or two cannot remember a time when I've come home with my teeth rattled or a sore spine. Bent/Broken axles, I've had more than my fair share, back when I was 13 -16 and using them as a great 'TOY" commonly known as driver abuse, Each to their own is the way. For me, Ontario Drive and Gear did it right, getting rid of the roll pinned axle sprockets for Splined shafts ect. I'm More than happy with my 83 and 84, 8 wheelers, and would take this RIG "on" in my home turf any day. Your approach speed to crossing/climing over anything would still be the same unless you want to be over the hood, ground speed, no difference, probably slows you down somewhat, So unless your a die hard out in the bush geriatric patient with severe spinal problems, save your money.
CERTIFIED ARGO NUT.

Boy, you really dont like springers huh. Maybe he just wanted to be different.


Im just glad us humans re-engineered the wooden spoke wagon wheels to something that helps float.

With a springer you could air up your tires more so you wouldnt loose your bead.

Normally you beef up when power up or should at least.

I see good and bad points on the springers. As well as anything else we have.

I just feel your being kinda hard on it. You need to soften it up. Get it, lol. springer=soft.

[Bushpig]

Not been hard at all, I think all or at least most of my points were VALID. I bought an ARGO to be "STAR TREK" to boldly go where no one has gone before.
It just seems silly to add a couple of hundred pounds of steel, shocks, universal joints ect, to a machine that even though it was designed to float, does not give you that much 'FREEBOARD' at the best of times, Yes its probably a lot less work modifying one than welding a frame up from SCRATCH, but if you want a buggy for flying around on, then you bought the wrong machine. As I posted on the "LOST POST" I have had my ARGO in the ATHABASCA RIVER, in FT McMURRAY NORTHERN ALBERTA CANADA for a 30 mile run to my trapline a few times, (I love adventure). This been an ARGO site, was just my take on the situation. We (Northern Alberta Argo Allterrain, when we were in business)) had this concept years ago, its just seems silly to take away one of the benefits of owning a machine with its capabilities (Fully capable of traversing most any waterway) for the sake of ride comfort, drop the p.s.i in your tires a bit if you have a sore back. As for the statement about added traction????
am I missing something, THE ARGO still weighs the same, all you have added is a ton more weight,shock absorbers are for the upstroke mostly, what you gain, traction wise, with the sprung pressure would be negligable at best, in fact as stated in another post, it would be more of a detriment than an asset, in the country I use mine. JUST A POINT OF VIEW, is all.
The only thing I've found that improves the performance of mine, ie in swamp, deep mud ect
is one of them DAMN BIG MOOSES that you can see in gallery, doesn't matter if I bottom out, is like the energiser bunny, keeps going and going.
CERTIFIED ARGO NUT.