ARGO Conquest to HDI Bearing Conversion (Vids)

[Rock Doctor]

Was looking through the parts manuals. It looks like machines before 6/02 have the integrated inner retainers.

I plan on getting an inner retainer from the HD and checking to see if there is a way to make this work - someday. If anyone gets a chance and find the answer here it would be awesome hear about it here.

(oh yeah, mine's a '98)

Hi John,
I have NOT converted one of the older bearing extensions, but I have looked at trying one. I believe that it can be done. A good machinest could do it with ease. I THINK I could do it with a dremmel and a good carbide bit. It would be similar to enlarging the holes on the mid axles, but you would be shaving off aluminium instead of plastic.

Can the HDI bearing be tracked back to a standard SKF, Timken, etc., part number? (e.g., HC206-20). The last two Vampire ASXs were mounted on the Avenger last week and I'm feeling some play in the outer bearings. It would be nice to source the bearings from a supplier if possible. Thanks.

I have one here:
RHP T1035-1.1/4G=102 65

This is the only info on the bearing, and the price through ODG is (IIRC) about $18.00

Just bumping this topic to the top again. I have a couple of bearing with a little play and am going to upgrade. Hows the conversion working for you RD? By the way, thanks again for the vid.

Pophamrt1, I also have vampires on my avenger. I live them for situations between reg tires and where I would use tracks. How do you like yours?

Your welcome
So far, so good.
I should mention one thing. Just last week a friend called me to see if I had any bearings left over from my conversion. (Same friend that I helped out when he packed too much load and wore holes through his tub, rubbing on the back tires). He said one of his front bearings is on it's way out. I'm a little concerned about that, but have not followed up on it.
It shouldn't be too much longer, and I will probably have my tracks on for the winter......That will be when the true TESTING starts


RD

[Pophamrt1]

Derek--The Vampires are great. But I have more Rubicon Trail than swamp at the moment (Northern California/Bay Area) so not much mud testing. Traction coming out of water on steep banks is unreal. Breaking a bead or puncturing the tires isn’t likely, if even possible.

But the added weight and rolling resistance opened a whole can of worms. Started me on the engine. I never liked the “disconnected” feel of the governor. With the bigger tires it felt down-right sluggish. Soooo... I machined a new throttle and choke assembly with direct motorcycle style carb linkage and replaced the entire governor assembly. Really woke the machine up. Crisp throttle response… can finally “blip” the throttle. Added valve spring shims to bring the seat pressure up a bit for a safe 5k rpm. It revs to about 4-4.5k but loses steam there. The cam/valve lift is so minimal it simply can’t breath up there. Working on that though .

Once the rain starts, then snow, I’ll take it to the Sierras, some flooded areas, etc. If anyone has any suggestions for flooded muddy areas in N. Ca I’m all ears.

RD--thanks for the numbers. I’m also really curious if the HDI bearings actually seal in the water. I really like the Conquest and non HDI Avenger seals. My outer bearings are also getting some play and the HDI ones may be the next upgrade.

[DerekF]

Pophamrt, I hate to be the bearer of bad news there but man have I had trouble with my vampires. They just would not keep air in them if pressured down to less than 3 psi, above 5, no problem. I attribute part of it to the cold (I live in the NWT Canada, its a territory about 500 miles east of Alaska). In your climate you might not run into this at all.

Today I took one of the tires off and the bead is chewed up, I am assuming from spinning on the rim. So I put some vulcanizing A/B compound to fix it, if that doesn't work, its tube time for all 8 tires.

I might try that with the governer. I agree, having it is a pain when you need just a little more. Maybe a tach should go in there also.......

Derek

[mudbug3]

You might consider buying some of the bead lock rims that Matt sells. I have two friends who have ran their Mud bug and Vampire tires with out any air mounted on Matt,s rims and still not lost a bead.

[DerekF]

Funny you should mention that. I bought them from Matt and they are on his rims. I took one off and found the bead on the tire had a tear in it, causing it to leak slowly. I believe the tear came from the local tire shop whom I had fix a couple puncture holes last year (ran right over a survey pin !?!?) I fixed it with Rema Tiptop A and B compound. I think that may solve the problem

Derek

[Pophamrt1]

Derek--Interesting about the bead lock on the Vampires. I haven't had the problem and haven't run them in the cold yet, but will soon. I don't known if the regular Vampires have the same bead lock ast the ASXs. Might be different. I run the ASXs at 0 to 2.5PSI and don't have much of a choice beyond that. Any pressure over that and the first two tires will rub. Where stock avenger tires regularly break beads unless at 10+PSI, rocks, etc., the ASX Vampires have held. It's the same setup MightyMax, Mike and a few others have run on their Max IVs: Vampire ASXs on Max Kawasaki rims. To my knowledge, no ones managed to unseat the setup yet, swamps and all. Tearing when mounting may be the issue--they are a bear to get on there. Either way, I'll carry the spare in the winter and post if I run into the issue.

Let me know if you want to delete the governor. I cnc'd some extra arms and plates, spring shims, etc. and could use another tester. Rev limiter is a non-issue... the camming keeps the rpm from going anywhere over about 4250. It just can't breath with less than a 1/4 inch of valve lift. Why they even use a governor mechanism on a vehicle (versus a genset, etc.) is beyond me.

[DerekF]

YEs, I would be interested in those pieces. How much do you want for them? The governor I don't mid so much, but the fact that it almost seems to kick in as soon as you hit the throttle, making it impossible to drive down a trail at at constant mid-higher RPM.

[Pophamrt1]

They're prototypes so not much; would appreciate getting some low temperature testing on them. :'). I'll get some pictures up over the next few days and then PM you.

The governor has always had a disconnected feel versus a direct motorcycle-style. The direct connection takes the guessing out of what the engine will be doing. The side-by-side comparison of the two mechanisms is almost commical. The governal assembly has 6 or is it 7 moving levers, with 3-4 springs, counter springs, cam levers, adjustment stops, etc. It truly looks like something designed by the Marque de Sade for torture when sitting next to a cleanly machined direct style setup.

[DerekF]

RD,

Did you have to change the bearing extension housings for the changeover? It did not look like it in the video but my dealer thought you needed to change them. I looked at the part numbers and they appear the same but thought I would ask.

If not, can you explain why you had to put carriage bolts in the housing? There is something I am missing here. ???

Derek

[Rock Doctor]

RD,

Did you have to change the bearing extension housings for the changeover? It did not look like it in the video but my dealer thought you needed to change them. I looked at the part numbers and they appear the same but thought I would ask.

If not, can you explain why you had to put carriage bolts in the housing? There is something I am missing here. ???

Derek

Hi Derek,
No I did not have to change my Bearing Extensions. My Conquest is a 2006, if you have one that is a 2002 or older I believe they would have to be changed or machined out (2002 or older have the inner bearing retainer built in. Units with the inner bearing retainer built in only require one cork gasket, units without the inner retainer built in need a seperate inner retainer, just like the mid axles, and require 2 cork gaskets)

I did not HAVE to use Carriage Bolts, actually anything else would have been better but I could not get anything long enough (need bolts about 7" long to work). What I did was use the original Carriage bolts, but the new Outer Retainers are not made to accept Carriage Bolts, so I had to grind off the square part under the bolt head. This caused the problem that now I had no way to stop the bolt from turning when I tried to tighten them up, so I had to weld a nut on the top of each bolt.
Very "Roundabout" way to do it, but it was the best I could do at the moment.

The new HDI Bearing Extensions are different. Instead of a bolt right through with a nut inside the body, like a Conquest, they have short bolts that go through the Outer Bearing Retainer, through the gaskets, and thread into the Bearing Extension (NO nuts on the end of the bolts, inside the body).

Hope that helps

Just a note: I will be changing out those "Bastardized" Carriage Bolts, and replacing them with "Normal" bolts, as required.
Also, The short Carriage Bolts that were used for the mid axles had to be replaced with "Normal" bolts as well. The added thickness of the new Outer Retainers makes the original bolts too short, as well, they are not made to accept the Carriage Bolt head.


RD

[DerekF]

FYI, if have an avenger (non-HDI) and you want to upgrade like RD did, you do not need to change the bearing extensions. They are a different part number but the only difference is that instead of the bolts coming out of the housing, the new ones have threaded holes. It is easy to change the set up of the older ones to accomodate the new style housing.

Second point, I put tubes in all the vampire tires. Love'em, can run 1psi with no problem.

Derek

[DerekF]

Just an Update.

I changed out one set of mid-axles on my Avenger to the HDI bearings. Dealers have a kit available. You do not have to reem the plastic out to make the retainer fit as per the conquest. Whether this is due to a different retainer or slightly different hole size on the Avenger I don't know. Actually I still had to clean up the hole with a dremmel to make it fit smooth.

Thanks again for the vid. The whole change took about an hour.

[moos-a-boo]

OK RD, it has been a year & 4 months since the bearings went in. Some of us, if not most of us, are curious if the HDI bearings are holding up & about how many hours are on them? Are they keeping the water out? Pro, Cons, would you do anything different?
Thanks for all your help & research.

[Geologic]

Rock Doctor, I signed up for this just to see how well the 24" tires would fit on my 2001 conquest. Adair Argo told me to join so I could read your posts. Now that I've already ordered and received all new stock bearings and seals, I read this post and wonder if I should go HD. I have my 227 hour CB19178 conquest that is completely apart. The tires are rotten and I have spent a small fortune for all new bearings seals brakes carb etc. Give us your recipe for a conquest this age please.

[DerekF]

Geologic,

my 2 cents. Go for the HDI bearings. I changed my front bearing last year. No problems. Worth the extra few bucks.

Derek