Argo Battery

[Rock Doctor]

So what do you guys recommend for an Argo Conquest Battery?

I was thinking about a post that "number1cas" made on another thread about Ultima Batteries (the ones that look like a 6 pack). I just had enough of buggering around with the Stock Size crappy batteries. Even fully charged they just barely turn the engine over when it's -30deg outside. The best I could get around here was only about 450 CCA, and total capacity is really to low for what I want. I spend to much time winching (Not necessarily becouse I'm stuck, but I move buildings, lift bridges, and whole Bison, ect)

I went and got one that I think is similar to what number1cas recomended, it has about tripple the total capacity, and about 1000+ CCA. It would NOT fit in the stock hole, so I just bit the bullet and mounted it on my back rack. It's about -25deg outside right now, and I went and tried the new battery.......Holy Crap. I hit the key and the starter damn near spun the Argo around. Fired right up, no problem. Now, since I have 2 Argo's, I think I should upgrade the second one as well, but I'm not to enthusiastic about kicking out another $300 for another one of these (There's not another one anywhere around here anyway, and the second Argo doesn't have a rack to mount it on). So, is there a recomended battery that will fit in the stock hole (5" wide, 9" long, and 8" high)?. Is a Deep Cycle Battery recommended for heavy winching.

NOTE, the Conquest that just got the upgrade has no alternator. The other one does have an alternator, and I've had no trouble with it yet, BUT, it's not my "goto" machine if I need to do lots of heavy work.


RD

[ndcommander]

For the really cold starting I just put a primer with a hose that shoots raw gas into the carb. It starts everytime almost immediately.

[Rock Doctor]

For the really cold starting I just put a primer with a hose that shoots raw gas into the carb. It starts everytime almost immediately.

Tried that, didn't work to good for me. Triad EITHER too, but if I can't get the thing to turn over she's hard to get going.

Another thing, you might have some thoughts on:
One of the Conquests will not fire up while the starter is turning, but as soon as you let the key go, it fires up. It's the only one I know of that does that, and is not really a problem if you know. My issue is other people starting the machine, they hold the key waiting for the engine to fire, but it won't. Not untill you let the key go.

Ideas?


RD

[Slimpickin]

One of mine was doing the same thing.

Make sure the wires on the back of the key switch are on the right conection.

Somebody had switched the wires before I got it.

It works fine now.

Slim

[JohnF]

I don't know the circuit detail of the ignition switches on these but if the shut off solenoid were on an accessory circuit that is off during start then it would act this way.

Yeah, what Slim said...

[Rock Doctor]

Make sure the wires on the back of the key switch are on the right conection.

Slim

Sorry slim, but could you give a little more detail? I THINK I might have a wireing diagram someplace, but

Actually I don't even know how many wires there are to the key switch. I'm bad with things that I can't fix with a HAMMER or a GAS AXE

Thanks for giving me a direction to look though

RD

[Pophamrt1]

Critical battery setup: Add a "Separated" Reserve and correct cableing...

Hey Rock Doctor,

Regarding the batteries, you can borrow the circuit design and battery setup from the “boating” or “expedition vehicle” worlds—both require starting power in critical situations, yet run lots of accessories like pumps and winches.

They all use a dual battery setup. One is the Primary for starting, the Secondary for accessories, the winch in your case. The trick is to separate the two with a smart battery “Separator” that will charge the primary to full first, then the secondary. The Separator will also sense the Primary battery when starting and if lower than about 12.67v, add the Secondary into the circuit. The Separator will also protect the Primary/Starter battery by not allowing it to draw down lower than 12.67v when winching, so starting will always be possible. Wiring is dirt simple and the Separators are about $70-100 depending on where you get them.

I’d suggest a glass matt gel battery (“AGM”) below the fuel tank as a Secondary. They can be laid flat and are sealed so never have to be filled. Size doesn’t matter as much as you think. Discharge rate per amp hour and cabling are the critical points. Everybody seems to try to solve the problem with one BIG battery. But the charging setup really needs two that are "staged" in the circuit. Also what really works for winching is terrible for starting and vice versa. Accessory batteries should be high discharge rate full draw down. The normal starter battery is fine as is, possibly with an upgrade in cabling anda if allowed to occasionally borrow some amperage from an accessory battery (very cold starts).

Add an AGM Secondary like the Interstate UPS12-120FR or something similar under the tank. The discharge rate is enormous and it can be drawn way, way down without hurting it while still discharging at a high rate. I’ve used them for winching and they’re exceptional, compact and maintenance free.

Use the thickest cabling within reason, but no less than a nice quality 4 gauge. The heavy gage let’s the capacity of the battery reach the winch/starter in full, not left behind in the wire’s resistance (heat). Most winches come with 6 gauge setup for short runs of 2 ft. Over 4-6 ft, 2 gauge improves power by something like 40% versus 6 gauge.

By the way, simply joining the two batteries in parallel has some drawbacks to charge levels: The weakest battery controls charge level, not to mention lacking the reliability of having the reserve battery. You can also just use a manual switch to bring a reserve battery into a circuit, but most forget to throw the switch sooner or later.

Pretty much the norm for Expedition Vehicles. You can find some discussions at ExpeditionPortal.com.

[Rock Doctor]

Tks pophamrt1, I will look into this as well. I actually have an isolator switch that was used in my last Jetboat. I will see if I can find it, might be able to use it.


Have a good one

RD

[garbie]

I have a wiring diagram for a conquest, but am unable to get it small enough to be allowed as an attachment. Let me know if you want it and I should be able to email it to you.
Rob

[Slimpickin]

Hi Rd
It's been a while but I think there are four wires.

Undo the switch and pull it out of the engine compartment so you can see it.

There is an ignition, auxillary, etc markings on the back of the switch. There is another terminal to. I don't remember the name.

Probably the aux and ignition are mixed up. If you run a hot wire from the battery, plug it into one wire connection at a time. Aux wire will have the fan, heater on it. If the fan heater come on plug that into the aux. The other two wires can be checked the same. Plug into the switch and see if it'll start normal. If not switch them around. The fourth wire runs the starter. I think it connects to the center of the switch.

If you have trouble let me know, I'll go pull mine out and draw a diagram.

Slim

[Rock Doctor]

I was out looking at the ignition switch, there are 5 wires
1 wire is hot into the switch
1 wire is power out with the key turned on (If I unplug it, the fuel pump stops and the low oil press light goes out)
1 wire is power out when the key is turned to START
2 wires are not hooked up, and there is NO power out of them in ANY key position

I'm suspecting that maybe the key switch has failed in the past, and someone has maybe rewired something? (Bush fix?)

The lights and the Brake fan are independently wired with their own switches

Thanks to you that have given me ideas, I will get back to you when I figure this out, but that might be a while (Like I said, this is not a problem at the moment). At this time, I am trying to get ready to take both machines out to our lake for the weekend. Trying to get ready, and I have bigger worries. Temps will be low, so I need to make sure I will be able to start everything. I have a generator, Booster Pack, Battery charger, electric heater, trouble lights, chainsaw, oil, gas, ect. (I KNOW my truck won't start by the time we get back to it, lol) I have to get the Ice auger, tip-ups, bait, hole strainer, tent, tent heater, knives, cutting board, ect ready. Clothing and food is up to the wife. Dogs might have to run in on this trip, lol. Both Argo's are almost full and they are not even loaded on the trailer yet. SNOWSHOES, almost forgot those................I guess I better get back at it.

Tks guys, Have a great weekend, I know I will

RD

[mike bar]

Good luck with your trip RD. Stay warm is key

[Stonewall]

Those two other prongs are probably accesory prongs, and should get power in some key position. I would suggest that you look at the keyswitch of your other argo and see if it is set up the same way. But it sounds to me like your keyswitch is bad or partly bad. you should be able to get it to work tho, try running a wire from the wire that is hot in the start position to your coil and maybe that will solve your problem. Good luck on your trip!!

[6X6]

..try running a wire from the wire that is hot in the start position to your coil and maybe that will solve your problem. Good luck on your trip!!

I believe this will also put current to the solenoid. (Stater will crank with key in "run" position)
I'd change the key switch. If you don't have a terminal on the back that's hot in both "Run" and "Start" positions, something is wrong.

[Rock Doctor]

Those two other prongs are probably accesory prongs, and should get power in some key position. I would suggest that you look at the keyswitch of your other argo and see if it is set up the same way. But it sounds to me like your keyswitch is bad or partly bad. you should be able to get it to work tho, try running a wire from the wire that is hot in the start position to your coil and maybe that will solve your problem. Good luck on your trip!!

Thanks SW,
So, the coil should get power from the key ON position, and power from the key START position? Am I reading you right? The coil needs power in the starting mode to fire up, AND needs power in the key on position to keep running.

I think it's funny that if this was a "Jet Turbine", I would have it figured out before I even looked at it. I'm so bad with small engines sometimes (Electrical Systems are the domain of Sparkies where I work, I'm not even allowed to look at them)


Mmmmmmm, Pizza for supper

RD