Buying a new HDI

[hydromike]

Pertaining to heat issues as Model Citizen already said the T-20 gets very hot under extreme conditions. My T-20 had to be rebuilt before my warranty was up-there is no such thing as bullet proof when placed under extreme conditions.

...and as she said, the particular T-20 in question was dismantled, and found to be in fine condition. How did the "hot T-20" card get played, anyway? I missed the congruity between "fuel problems" when the 750 EFIs get warm, and a hot transmission, and (apparently) transmission reliability, if that's what precipitated it. What was wrong with your T-20, anway? What needed to be rebuilt? Was it a leaky plunger, or did a band snap? I spin my 38 year old T-20 (I havent' had it apart... doubt anyone else has) at near 10,000rpm for decent stretches of track, and it gets crazy-hot. It'll probably grenade some day, because it's not bulletproof. The right bullet just hasn't come along, yet.

[Northriver21]

I would agree with your reluctance to upgrade to a HDI after reading this. If your happy with the 05 and the 750 EFI is the same setup I'd stick with what is known. Is your 05 and EFI model? I'd assume not but I haven't kept up with the latest and greatest on the Avengers (still stuck in the Conquest era). I have heard some second had stories about the newer 750 EFI's and fuel troubles when they get warm. I don't remember all the details but will ask my friend and post if I can get an answer.

AlaskaGrizzly, no the 05 Avenger is carburated. It is a good rig, but everyone else in my hunting party are running 750 EFI's with no fuel troubles.

The extra horsepower is evident in the soft stuff with the Argo full of moose and a heavy trailer behind. The 31hp EFI's run off and leave me in the swamps.

The conquest is also a good rig. Before the Avenger I ran a 99 conquest from 99-05. IMO overall the Avenger is better, but there are still things about the conquest I prefer over the Avenger.

What have you decided to do? I am going in to test drive the HDI this week and I will make a decision. Up to now I have purposely not been in to see the HDI because I didn't want to get bit by the new buggy bug.

[Model Citizen]

Pertaining to heat issues as Model Citizen already said the T-20 gets very hot under extreme conditions.

My T-20 had to be rebuilt before my warranty was up-there is no such thing as bullet proof when placed under extreme conditions.

I think you might have misunderstood my post somewhat, Dan. Our experience has been that the T-20's, ( only because we had the ability to check them with a heat gun, out of curiosity) can & do get hot. Of course they do. Most people don't drive their machines for 30 miles non-stop at 30+ miles an hour average speeds or climb hills for long stretches when they ride. Our experience has been that the T-20 is an amazing thing with a capital AMAZING. We have never had a problem with our T-20's, with our modified machines or in the past. It's comforting for us to know that they just might be bullet proof.
It would be disappointing to need a rebuild on a new machine, but the best time for anything to go bad is when it's still under warranty, I guess. It's only a problem when/if the same issue keeps recurring after the fix.

Bridget

[mightymaxIV]

I will offer my opinion one more time on the Admiral:
It's my opinion that most of the so called problems are caused by folks running up and down the trails and using the low range counter rotation feature at speeds greater than Argo intended and over stressing the system.

Pertaining to heat issues as Model Citizen already said the T-20 gets very hot under extreme conditions.

My T-20 had to be rebuilt before my warranty was up-there is no such thing as bullet proof when placed under extreme conditions.

I Love my Admiral transmission and still have not had a problem-after 43 hours of service my machine is in almost perfect condition.

[AlaskaGrizzly]

Hey guys, I'm new to the forum, but not new to Argo's. I have bee using Argo's here in Alaska since the 80's. I try to upgrade every 5-6 years.

I have been watching this thread very close. I am in the same boat as the OP. It is getting time to upgrade the 05 Avenger. I will likely buy a new rig here in the next month or two, but everytime I make a decision to HDI or not to HDI a post comes up to make me reconsider.

I just don't feel 100% comfortable with the HDI for reasons stated in this thread. My dealer assures me that all of the bad press on the HDI was the 2010 model year and that all issues are resolved. I'm not buying that line just yet.

I think I can still get a 750 EFI this season, so I may just get one of those and wait for the HDI to improve before I need to upgrade again.

Any opinions on that logic? Keep the info coming....This is good stuff and much appreciated.

I would agree with your reluctance to upgrade to a HDI after reading this. If your happy with the 05 and the 750 EFI is the same setup I'd stick with what is known. Is your 05 and EFI model? I'd assume not but I haven't kept up with the latest and greatest on the Avengers (still stuck in the Conquest era). I have heard some second had stories about the newer 750 EFI's and fuel troubles when they get warm. I don't remember all the details but will ask my friend and post if I can get an answer.

[AlaskaGrizzly]

RD you are absolutely right because there were in fact two 700cc quads on this trip (Yamaha Grizzlys). However we most times cannot get them thru the swamps to where we end up downing the moose or if we can get them there they can not haul much out at a time. the Mudd-Ox can haul the whole moose and three people where ever we point it. Also we used to take an argo back there prior to the Mudd-Ox. It was not an HDI. the problem with the argo was that about 20 miles back there is a very very steep long hill (2500 ft of vertical over about a mile) that the argo was hard to control going down and could not climb up with out a quad either pulling or pushing it up. This hill has some turns in it and trying to negoiate the turns with the argo would rob enough power that it could not climb it without assistance and this is with out a trailer. The Mudd-Ox allows the descent with great control and climbs it with the trailer easily. In fact if the quads are towing trailers we use the Ox to assist them up the hill. Argos have a long good history here in Alaska and are very capable machines it just seems like the Mudd-Ox offers some advantages and is definately built stronger although that comes with a weight penalty. BTW I appreciate your informative experienced posts and your are a true asset to these forums.

How does the Mudd-ox handle loose rock on hills? I'm guessing Mudd-ox's tend to spin out just like Argo's. I assume you are talking about Monument Hill at the L. Nelchina. Never have taken my Conquest back there but I do think it would take a little finess, and some winching, to get it back up with a moose in the back and a loaded trailer. Hills like that is where the hydrostatic drive of the Ox would shine.

[Northriver21]

Hey guys, I'm new to the forum, but not new to Argo's. I have bee using Argo's here in Alaska since the 80's. I try to upgrade every 5-6 years.

I have been watching this thread very close. I am in the same boat as the OP. It is getting time to upgrade the 05 Avenger. I will likely buy a new rig here in the next month or two, but everytime I make a decision to HDI or not to HDI a post comes up to make me reconsider.

I just don't feel 100% comfortable with the HDI for reasons stated in this thread. My dealer assures me that all of the bad press on the HDI was the 2010 model year and that all issues are resolved. I'm not buying that line just yet.

I think I can still get a 750 EFI this season, so I may just get one of those and wait for the HDI to improve before I need to upgrade again.

Any opinions on that logic? Keep the info coming....This is good stuff and much appreciated.

[mightymaxIV]

I bought a 650 HDI last september and used it for hunting and then snow plowing. ( I clear snow for three country properties with laneways so steep you only walk the laneway in the winter). The machine is 10 times the Bigfoot that I had. Traction with the admiral trany is amazing to say the least. ( yes I have a set of tracks). The reason I am replying to this thread is that I just go in the house after seven steady hours of pushing gravel on one of these steep laneways because of a recent wash out rain storm. Yes the engine and tranny were hot. but not as much as I would have expected after a seven hour workout. I was in high range all the time because I needed the traction so I dont know what would have happened if I had been in Low range.But I cant understand why you would even need Low range for any extended time. I only use it when I am stuck in a tight place and have to spin arround.

Thanks for the information Steve, like you I haven't any problems with the Admiral. Like you I rarely use the low range, and have only seen a need for low range on a few occasions, like you I love the traction provided by the Admiral transmission.
The Admiral transmission is the only machine I have seen (besides a Mudd Ox) that can be steered in awful mud.
Love my Admiral and love the build quality of my HD.

[steve mcd]

I bought a 650 HDI last september and used it for hunting and then snow plowing. ( I clear snow for three country properties with laneways so steep you only walk the laneway in the winter). The machine is 10 times the Bigfoot that I had. Traction with the admiral trany is amazing to say the least. ( yes I have a set of tracks). The reason I am replying to this thread is that I just go in the house after seven steady hours of pushing gravel on one of these steep laneways because of a recent wash out rain storm. Yes the engine and tranny were hot. but not as much as I would have expected after a seven hour workout. I was in high range all the time because I needed the traction so I dont know what would have happened if I had been in Low range.But I cant understand why you would even need Low range for any extended time. I only use it when I am stuck in a tight place and have to spin arround.

[vader8x8]

Not sure about the warranty question. Have you considered an 8x8 Frontier? I don't know what you plan on doing with it but IMHO an HDI is overkill unless you plan on using it for commercial use. I have a 2010 8x8 Frontier and I haven't had ANY problems. (knock on wood) It swims better, lighter, and easier access in the engine compartment. (air cooled) Not to mention a proven trans that does not have heat/breakage issues. (pretty sure it's not just internet hype) I put a set of Adair tracks on, winch. brush guard, outboard motor w/mount, skid plate, 2 spare tires, and additional lights for over 2k less than an HDI with zero options. I've run it with over 1000 lbs in it and it doesn't flinch. It ran through the bush great with tires but the tracks just bring it to a new level. Not saying an HDI isn't an awesome machine. It is. If you buy one I hope you don't have any issues. Just something to consider.

[AdrenalineJunky]

Hi, I this will be my first 8x8.......So I am about to buy a new hdi, but now I'm a bit worried the tranny will blow!.. Really? This is not internet hype is it? These new hdi avenger seem like a great rig too me. I'm not sure I buy into all the tranny failures. Am I wrong? Argo replaces them under warranty, only to fail again? How does argo or dealer handle warranty of a machine bought from a dealer that is gone out of business? Thanks.

[akpride]

Vader8x8 this is just the conversation I was looking for when I started this thread. Thanks for all perspectives!

[vader8x8]

It is a shame. Argo should be supporting the dealers. Most are small especially in the North East. (3 in all of New England? Now maybe only 2?) I've bought new dirt bikes, street bikes, and trucks, always with the same hassel high pressure "what will it take to blah blah." When I called John he just said "come up and test one." The machine was brand spankin new and without hesitation he had me ripping around in the dirt behind the shop. I bought it on the spot because he beat every price on a new frontier 8x8 on the internet by a long shot on his first offer. (with no B.S.) Argo should be thinking twice before letting dealers like these guys slip away, instead of turning thier backs on dealers and customers having numerous problems with the admiral. Sorry for hi jacking this thread akpride.

[max 4 mike]

Yeah i ride with junkman his max is a little crazy at times when he gets on the throttle its a shame he and John are calling it quits with Argo they have had some warranty issues in the past that they had to pay out of their pocket junkman has a good reputation with repairs and service on all types of machines they both have been selling Argos for about 5 yrs now .. hate to see them go .. just my 2 cents

[vader8x8]

LOL, Sounds good. I'm not worried about being pulled out, I'm worried you'll lead me far out into no mans land and then bolt away at 40plus MPH. I better bring my GPS.