Buying a new HDI

[mudbug3]

thejunkman


The HD belt was installed on my Argo Frontier by Tim Schafer right before I received it because he knew that there was an on going problem with the stock clutch belts squealing. Tim also sent Mightymax an HD clutch belt because his stock clutch belt was squealing too. A lot of times when I,m pulling out a 4-wheeler thats stuck in thick mud ,my HD belt will make a short chirp and then stop. This is in low gear. My HD belt will only make a chirping sound if I have my Frontier under a lot of load. On the flip side though , if I,d put my Max IV in the exact situations that I,ve had my Argo in to make the belt chirp, my stock Max belt would squeal like a pig, and keep on squealing just as long as I had a big load on the belt. The clutch belt on my Max would then need replacing.

[dromas]

Dromas, congrats on your machine. Did u get the tracks. Did they tell u anything about any warranty?

1999f1504x4, have u had any issues with the machines u have been running and what are you using them for?

yes i purchased rubber tracks but have not used them yet i did not get the dealer to install them and have to put them together still.

warrenty info can be for here scroll near the last page. i also purchased a extra 2 years of warrenty this covers anything the original warrenty did.

http://http://www.argoatv.com/_uploads/recreational/documents/344_Argo_Operators_Manual_671-21-10-2010.pdf_(2011_Models)v1.pdf

[akpride]

The belt issues on the frontier shouldn't be the same because they are on the old style tranny right?

[mudbug3]

akpride


I was told that Argo was using a french company to buy their clutch belts from but later on switched to an american company for the new model Argo,s. A theory that I,ve been told is this: The french clutch belt sheves don,t line up correctly with the angle on the belt thats made by the american company. This was,nt a problem with the older Argo,s that used the open differential transmission ,because both the clutch and the belts both came from the same company.

[lewis]

So far I have had 2 with major failure I sent both trannys back to odg for repairs. We have a lot of commercial. Buissness. Owners who use these machines. Some companies won't even consider a avenger. Due to. Having frame issues in the past. They only purchase. Centaurs. Don't laugh but I prefer the old style tranny as long as the pms are done they have held up good. Even the new heavy duty belt squeels at times. Not a 100 percent fix. Talk to. Mudbug. And mightymax. They really work these machines

Application of the equipment is the key. As you know the Centaur is a brute of a machine but is not user friendly to recreation use. To heavy to float well and wide, not to mention the expense. Not to cut the Centaur but it is more built to be a industrial/commercial machine. You have probably seen the abuse that these machines are put through. I haven't seen a Avenger with frame problems but then again we don't see everything, but you can destroy anything. As you are aware buying the right equipment for the right job is a big key to the success of the machine and how you take care of it. Machines usually only show up when they will no longer start or move which brings a multitude of other problems that have went unchecked, but we are talking commercial use and the operators have no investment in these machines.....thus the term " Drive it like a Rental". Right machine for right task. You can not ask a Avenger to do the same things that a Centaur does. Yet they are out there performing like champs. Bean counters always look for the cheapest avenue.

Belt squeal will always be a factor with all these type machines in some form. Sometimes we ask the machine to do things that is beyond the physics of the components. If we think about it, friction and pressure are what makes these machines move with a cvt. When the traction or wheels are locked in place by a rut or other condition the tranny with actually stop but the motor is still trying to make it go and then you have the squeal.

My Avenger has the 25x12x9 tires which are a great tire(My Opinion) but, their traction is much greater then the Rawhide III's. This i noticed from the start. The Rawhide III had more traction than the Runamucks which i noticed when i went from a Conquest to the Avenger. I could do donuts all day long with the Conquest but no so easy on dry ground with the Avenger without getting a little belt squeal. The heavier the load and more pressure on the tires plus traction makes it harder on the components to stay 100% engaged so squeal WILL occur occasionally. Getting out of the throttle and letting the belt move down to a lower ration is how i have learned to deal with this situation.....perfect no, but it is what works with my machine. I have only been driving AATV's for about 5 years and it is a learning process, knowing how to handle your machine in a lot of different situations is something that time with your machine and knowing how it reacts can give you. The items mentioned above are things that we learn as AATV riders,.. learn through time of operation and a new to the sport may not know. Getting stuck.....is something we all do, some are just better at that than others...but no matter how good the machine or the driver is....you will get stuck sooner or later and we will get it on video!

I think sharing this info is good for perspective buyers so that they can ask questions from their dealers as they consider to purchase a machine. Face it these machines are not cheap. This is quite a investment and you really hope you are making a good choice when doing so.

No matter what, i have found that Argo has a great machine and there is a support system behind it to accommodate you needs: Be it spare parts/accessories or advice/service. I have seen them bend over backwards to make customers feel good about their machines. I am almost certain there are one or two out there that will disagree but that can happen.

Just a note: This is my opinion and others will agree i am sure. If you go to buy a machine off ebay or from a dealer that does not service or keep spare parts you are setting yourself up for a hit. You WILL need parts and sometimes advice and a good dealer can supply you this.

I know i have strayed a little from the primary subject but i thought it was a important thing to say for members that are considering these machines. Would i buy a HDI yes i would...but i have a good machine as it is and don't feel right now is the time, but when i get ready the HDI Avenger will be my choice. I like the 8 wheel machines.....just my preference.

Hope this is useful information and that it stays on the upbeat side. Remember we are a small group and should help each other to keep this a great sport.

Lewis

[akpride]

All thanks for the inputs please keep um coming I would really like to hear from some owners on their experiences everyone else has been very helpful thanks!

[Rock Doctor]

I don't have anyting to add, I have never been told what was wrong with the transmitions that were sent back for rebuild. The last one piled up at 38hrs. I think that's 11 of them that I know of from this area that have detonated. The general consensus around here is that the Conquests were a much more reliable machine.
I was in the local Argo Dealer last week, and was listening to his sales pitch to a prospective buyer. His exact words at one point were

" They have a tendency to blow up transmitions, but Argo has been good about replacing them on warranty "

I kinda feel like I'm slamming ODG when I talk about the HDI's, but in all honesty, I and my friends, have not had really good luck with them.
Weaker body's, Broken seat frames, broken Motor plates, Faulty O2 sensors and Neutral sensors, Detonated Transmitions, ect.

Personally, I would take a Conquest, and upgrade the engine, bearings, tires, clutches, and have a damn good, more reliable, significantly less expensive, great machine. But that's just my 2 bit opinion.


RD

[akpride]

Rock doctor , thanks for the input. It's good to hear from all you guys and get an honest from experience insight.

[Slimpickin]

I like my conquests. Very little trouble.

Slim

[mightymaxIV]

Here is my experience with the Admiral-My belt still squeals from time to time but that is under very heavy load conditions and as Mudbug said if I put my max under the same conditions the belt would howl, as Lewis said it is just physics and we are asking a lot of the machines.

I rarely use the low range on the trail because at any kind of speed the counter rotation works against you and the transmission will make a popping sound.

The counter rotation is great in light mud or when a quick turn is required on the trail.

My machine does have some heat issues and like mud bug I have started to run with my hood off and this makes a big difference. I believe that most of the heat in the HD is caused by the very restrictive exhaust system.

In a few minutes I will be posting a video of my machine running in some extreme mud and swamp conditions. I ran the HD without a hood all day and had very few problems considering the extreme conditions and 86 degree temperatures.

Here is my input on the HDI-absolutely great machine if you don't have to pull a trailer or use low range much

If Argo would design the machine so that the counter rotation feature was a separate switch the HDI would be cat heaven!

[thejunkman]

HDI

I agree with you rock doctor. I. Barley have to do repairs on the conquests. I know they are old machines. But well. Built. I. Feel the new. Ones have thinner. Tubs

[akpride]

Damn I use atrailer and haul a heavy load every year. I might just be getting the mudd ox after all but the HDIwas so smooth.

[MaxRules]

The Conquest was a solid machine but I don't think there is any real comparison to the Avenger. The Conquest is a lot slower with smaller tires and it can't go half the places the Avenger can when unmodified. Much of the Conquest's reliability comes from simply not going the places an Avenger can or being run as hard because it's not as fast and agile. I really like the Conquest for just working hard and hauling lots of gear, but when the going gets tough you better get an Avenger. Those bald little Runamuks just won't take you far.
For example, I have a 1985 Honda 250 2x4 that is probably the most reliable quad ever made. It runs forever with no maintenance. However, it's not very capable and it's home is on the farm just cruising around. When I want to ride a real machine, I get on a Polaris 4x4. It won't last as long and needs more maintenance.... but then again when I ride the Polaris, it is spinning all four wheels through deep mud with the engine revving to the moon or crossing a creek with water up to the seat. It will never last as long as the Honda because it's capabilities allow it to be run hard.

The Admirial trans probably has some issues to work out, but for non-commercial use it's built very tough. The Conquest's trans has been used since the 70s so I would think the issues have been worked out of that one.

[Rock Doctor]

The Conquest was a solid machine but I don't think there is any real comparison to the Avenger. The Conquest is a lot slower with smaller tires and it can't go half the places the Avenger can when unmodified. Much of the Conquest's reliability comes from simply not going the places an Avenger can or being run as hard because it's not as fast and agile. I really like the Conquest for just working hard and hauling lots of gear, but when the going gets tough you better get an Avenger. Those bald little Runamuks just won't take you far.
For example, I have a 1985 Honda 250 2x4 that is probably the most reliable quad ever made. It runs forever with no maintenance. However, it's not very capable and it's home is on the farm just cruising around. When I want to ride a real machine, I get on a Polaris 4x4. It won't last as long and needs more maintenance.... but then again when I ride the Polaris, it is spinning all four wheels through deep mud with the engine revving to the moon or crossing a creek with water up to the seat. It will never last as long as the Honda because it's capabilities allow it to be run hard.

The Admirial trans probably has some issues to work out, but for non-commercial use it's built very tough. The Conquest's trans has been used since the 70s so I would think the issues have been worked out of that one.

I completely agree with most of this ^ . A bone stock Avenger will do things that a stock Conquest will not (I've also seen more than one Conquest do things that an Avenger won't though)........BUT, the last Conquest I got cost me about $3,200 with a set of rubber tracks. Now, for roughly $5,000 I can upgrade to a 27hp engine, install the new Bearings/seals, and put 24" Frontier tires on it, (Moding the clutches costs nothing). So now I have about $8,200 into a machine that will do almost anything that an Avenger will do (I am willing to say that, although I can't think of anywhere that an HDI can go that I can't), and some that an Avenger won't do, and I have less than half the money into it. I have yet to see an Avenger that will go anyplace I can't, nor are they faster than me on the trail. Personally, I have a slightly different slogan than yours, it's more like " When the going gets tough, you better get a Conquest"
I also believe the same as you, that the Admiral has issues, personally I would take an older Avenger over the HDI in a heartbeat, but at the end of the day, I would take a Conquest over either of the Avenger Models at this time.
I can be a little hard on my equipment though. Rough trails and heavy loads will damage any machine over time.


RD

[akexpress]

gas ox with trailer.jpgPic says it all 50+ miles off the road full camp for 10 days and bull moose in the back.