Limits of operation for 6x6, 8x8

[Tour1]

I want to get an ATV / 4WD that will climb a rocky treed slope of up to 40 degrees.
I don't have anything yet, I sold my Jeep because I didn't want to risk it rolling over on the hill. I figured if the jeep was a solid block of wood it would tip at 55 degrees front-rear or 35 degrees left-right. My hill being 40 degrees on the topo map, I thought it too risky since if it lot traction on one side it could turn and roll over left-right even when standing still.
So, for a typical 6x6 or 8x8, what are the rollover limits?
Can a 6x6 climb a long 40 degree slope?
Also, what is the ground clearance?
Can a 6x6 plow snow or gravel?
How about an 8x8?

[Madtrapper]

A 40 degree incline is pretty darn steep , if you hit the slightest hump going up you may go over backwards. Not sure i would want to do it in my max.I think your asking for trouble, but thats just my opinion.

[Sparx]

Maybe winched up on a good set of tracks maybe... That's a steep call for any machine out there not winched period.

[Tour1]

I have a 5K lb winch I bought in case my van gets stuck at the road's edge, yet to be tested.

Yes, 40 degrees is steep, but I think it's the maximum on the path I would try. I slipped and fell on my backside going down a steeper slope on foot. Besides some loose rock there is a lot of fallen wood, deer poop, and leaves. I saw an article where a Corvette pulled 1 G on the skid pad, equivalent to a 45 degree slope (with smooth pavement and sticky tires). I know it won't be easy but I'd like to do better than having to build a cog railroad up the hill.

I took a hint from the home page and found the Mudd-Ox operator's manual.
on page 5 of 21 it says "Do not operate the Mudd-Ox on angles greater than 25 degrees."
In a chart it says
Approach and departure angles 25 (degrees) Maximum
Ground Clearance 13" at center of vehicle, 7" at outer edge of vehicle
Weight 1700 lbs (and up)

There's a note about entering water at less than 25 degrees to prevent scooping water into the tub, hardly a necessary note if you never exceed 25 degrees at any time.

It also says to put on a helmet on land and take it off on water. I can't recall seeing that in videos yet

I'll be reading more and I would really expect to take on a fixer-upper rather than a new vehicle that is more mud flat oriented that rocky slope oriented. I'm new to it all so almost every word tells me something I didn't know.

Sorry if this is a double post, I keep getting logged out while typing.

[marauder]

As the others have said, that is an awfully steep grade and not safe trying to go up it in any vehicle. For reference, the US Army doesn't require its combat vehicles to go up anything steeper than a 60 percent slope, which is about 31 degrees, and that is very steep too. Take our advice and don't try to drive up that steep of a slope, at least not before you make us the beneficiaries of your life insurance policy.

[jerseybigfoot]

And 8x8's typically will do better than a 6x6 or 4x4.

[pinestumps]

I've barely been able to squeak by 70% grades in ideal ground conditions and empty. The only small rig I can think of that could safely handle 40° loaded would probably be a thiokol imp, but i don't think they float very well.

[john swenson]

no one has remarked that it is due to lack of ... i guess if there is power and traction, i wonder if some kind of strong, wide '' wheelie bar '' attached correctly and sticking out back far enough would work ? it would probably need to have coil springs to give some up and down travel for the terrain.. but limited travel to keep the nose down. just a thought as a designer . johnboy va.

[ARGOJIM]

no one has remarked that it is due to lack of...

I will now.

Stick Time!

While many of us have been up some stupid angles with large pucker factors we perhaps should not of been on, most of those would never lead a newbie even to the base of that unless there was a bypass.
A roll cage and seat belts urged for any attempt of that.
We don't need to be on any statistics charts.

My strong opinion.

[Tour1]

So the terminology is that a 70% grade is 7 feet up for 10 feet forward? And that would be the limit (estimated) by wisdom and experience?
I'll do the math and check the path up the hill.
How about utility such as plowing?
Is that a practical thought with a 6x6 or 8x8?
I have to admit at this point that a 6x6 is better for things off the hill because of size.
How much better is an 8x8 compared to a good 6x6?
Edit: 70% is 35 degrees, and I just saw this old brochure via the home page

http://www.6x6world.com/images/brochures/mobilera-trailblazer-6x6-aatv-1.jpg

It says it climbs 100% / 45° if I read it right.
I'm guessing experience tells you they didn't write it right?

[pinestumps]

Sorry I should clarify, my machine is homemade and neither a 6x6 or 8x8.

Kinda curious what test they did to get 45°.

Here was the imp specs:

[Madtrapper]

I know going up that slope will be treacherous but coming down will be no joy ride either. We have about a 30-35 degree hill where we moose hunt. Last winter my buddy had gone up it with his argo with tracks when it was warm in the afternoon. I came down it the next morning at -10c ....holy hanna there was no stopping the Max it was like a cow on ice . My buddy was watching and had a good laugh. His turn came ...he faired no better. Good luck on your 40 degree slope.oh and also we both run rubber tracks. :o)

[Tour1]

70percent-path-up.jpg
Sorry I think the site compressed my jpg too much.
I checked and found the path up can be less than 70% at least according to the topo data.
I drew circles that would indicate a 70% slope if they touch 2 topo contours (each is 2 feet of elevation). Only 1 spot comes close to that but it's near the top.
I mapped a path that could be a 10% grade all the way up but it requires building a retaining wall to terrace the hillside.
That path is a solid red line scaled to 4 feet wide in my sketch.At the steepest part of the hill the wall would be 1.2 feet if I also made a 1.2 foot cut into the hill.
A 10 foot wide path would need up to a 3 foot retaining wall and a cut into the hill up to 3 feet vertical.
in my dreams the future 6x6 ~ whatever can do the work to cut and fill the path. It could be solid rock though.
My trailer has a 950 lb payload so if I was going to drop everything to get an ATV it would have to be under 950 lbs.
Cheap is also necessary, cheaper than a Mudd-Ox or far from new.
I've yet to ask or hear about plowing etc except the Argo? note about not going in the water with a plow attached. How durable are the lightweight 6x6 drivetrains?
I expect they might be stronger than an ATV that is made to go 50mph.

[SeanD]

Now, granted, I have a 22hp engine replacing what was 14 or so, but considering plowing: I have attempted to pull things (like phone poles and a stuck zero turn mower) with my Hustler 6x6 a few times. it seems that every time resulted in either breaking a bolt in the sprockets, making the transmission wonky, or some other Hustler-altering event. I think the main hang-up is the go-kart style clutch and belt not getting the power to the tires. Is there a 6x6 with real gears? Having both a small 4x4 tractor and a 6x6, I would say the 6x6 is not going to pull a plow through anything for the first time. You could probably run a set of disc harrows, but not a plow. Additionally, you don't have any sort of 3-pt lift like a tractor does. Plows are heavy. In light of that- I have had less "pucker factor" climbing the same 100 yard incline of silty rocks with the small Kubota than with the 6x6.

What about one of those? Depending on where you live, about $4500 will you get diesel, 4x4, a BRAKE! pedal, Ag tires, small size, and many, many options for implements. If you are reclaming land you'll want a bushhog as well. if you're planting you'll want either a tiller or harrows, right?



Granted, I've not had my 6x6 for very long, but it seems more for leisure and exploration rather than "work".

*EDIT* I just reread your first post. You don't want to plow a garden... Haaaha. Either way- you might be able to rig up some drag implement to the back of a 6x6. I don't see how you'd run a blade, front or back. It's just a plastic tub. Everything connected to the outside connects to that plastic tub, not a steel chassis. Somebody else has probably already done it and will show me wrong...!
I'm just a southern guy, so I don't "really know" what snow is. Haaha!

[Tour1]

This looks like my dream machine right there, except he doesn't say what he paid for the setup.

http://www.6x6world.com/forums/general-6x6-atv-discussion/3849-new-members-introduce-yourself-here-652.html#post225385

I looked at some tractors for sale, the main drawback is weight because I have a folding trailer with a 950 lb net payload (as-is).
Used old tractors like your Kubota seem to be comparable to 6x6s in price and availability, but even some 8x8s are under 1000 lbs.

Whatever test the builders used to get 45 degree climbs, a lot of the old brochures make the claim.
If the climb is de-rated to 70% real-world then it should translate to an ability to push or pull 70% of its weight on the level.
For adding attachment points my first instinct would be to use the wheel hubs if they weren't too fragile.
I once had a car with splined racing hubs that bolted to the regular wheels' stud pattern.
Considering how easily the racing wheels spun on those splines, a stub axle with bearings ought to work pretty good.

The competition seems to be between:
1. a nice 6x6 or 8x8
2. a conventional ATV with plow (and more, maybe)
3. a small garden tractor, if I can find one that has gadgets and lends itself to rough terrain

Thus far unsaid is that the amphibs have built-in protection against accidental oil spills.
I can see the Delaware River from one corner of the lot and although it's not a reservoir I"m sure people care about spills if only because they have well water.