Argo vs. Max vs. ?

[boncrshr]

Ya' know...it's kinda weird. Every time I think I know exactly what I need out of my Hustler, I go riding somewhere different. This last time when I was following my buddies pickup for 11.5 miles at WOT down the beach, 24mph seemed kinda slow. And riding in sand is weird too....you hit a soft stretch and it kills your speed. However, other than the occasional unforeseen crevice that you seem to hit at light speed, the beach is a silky smooth ride.

The Kidd looks like it might be slow, I couldn't find much info on it. I like the prop option and metal body though.

One thing is for sure...the man in the orange jumpsuit is a bad influence! I guess I will eventually have to get a pallet rack system to hold my different machines.

[Mike]

T-20 has a possi differential
Harder on tires bearings etc but give you better traction

Robio, the T-20 is not a possi differential. It is two separate transmissions in one case. You can barely pull back on either stick and make a sweeping, large radius turn without tearing up the grass as badly as a hard skid.

As for popularity, I'm not so sure that I agree with your statistics either.

[RickMo]

t20 in argo

I seen somewhere not to long ago that the 1st Argos with t-20s in them. I want to say that I think that one of them was a supersport model. With 35 or 40 something HP. Let me know if someone knows for sure.I'll try looking for it again sometime.Rick

[RickMo]

I think the picture they showed it was only a 2 seater 6x6.

[whipper-ag]

I kinda heard through the grapevine that the Argo center axle on a 6x6 is positioned lower then the front and rear axle. can anybody verify that? If true, Why? I know that I can sit on the cement with my Spider or my Max,and from a dead stop,spin 360 deg.instantly. If you can do that with your Argo in high gear from a dead stop, on cement, please post a video of it. I have driven an Argo and in my opinion it does not handle as good as a T-20 driven car, especially at high speeds.Which is my next question. Every video of an Argo I see, it's doing 10mph. They must go faster than that. with one exception, Roger S, I've seen him drive fast. Is it because they're hard to handle?
Anyway, this thread is about whats better, Max or Argo. And you now have my opinion. So let's hear from all you Argo guys why that center axle is lower.And now we're all waiting for that concrete 360. When the snow melts of course.

Whipper

[jerseybigfoot]

The old Argos had all the wheels at the same height. the new 8 wheel units are higher on the ends. I am not sure of the new Argo 6 wheelers.
regarding what is the best. I have a Bigfoot, Attex, Hustler and a few scramblers. The Bigfoot is the truck and brush bash-er, The Attex is light and nimble, The Hustler has a 1 minute learning curve and takes all the abuse from the newbies and just keeps going. The 12 hp scrambler goes everywhere the other go only faster, with a good ride better balance, lower cg. Tires also make a big difference. The Rawhides are better for the rocks.
I can hold a beer can in one hand and drive the Argo. cant do that easily with the others.

[Roger S]

edit: jerseybigfoot posted while I was typing..

The 8 wheel avenger was the first argo to have lower center axles.. the 4 middle axles are 1" lower on centerline. Reason is to reduce traction for easier steering effort. Being front heavy, it tilts forward, weight centered basically near the second axle, the rear wheels slightly off the ground, if on a flat and level slab. So turning effort is about like a six wheeler. Or if loaded in the back the pivot center will shift.. but regardless there usually aren't 8 wheels to skid. I did this to my older Response, redrilled and bored the frame and lowered the axles a 1/2".

The parts diagram for the new Frontier 6 wheeler's frame is drawn with lowered holes in the center axles. An argo dealer said the factory considered doing that but the final product did not have it, so it may be just a printing error. All of the older argos like bigfoots, vanguards, response, conquest have level axle centerlines.

Handling problems? front heavy, touchy brakes, and non beadlock wheels/ high psi for rough ride/poor control at speed of the pre Frontier 6 wheelers. The stretched wheelbase and soft tires on the Frontier, along with a 23 hp and a quiet helical gear trans is a long way from your friend's argo. Al James went from his maxII 23 kohler to a frontier and said he didn't miss the II at all.

But unless you beat the steering effort into submission with horsepower, argo's are a dog to turn. You can do the 360 you're talking about, but you have to get the belt engaged first, just for a split second. Get the differential in motion. But that is what I consider the worst about the argo, not that it's an open diff, but that in the 360 with one side locked, the gear ratio to the other side is doubled. Something like the Frontier it's not a concern.. my 8 wheeler stock with taller agressive tires.. that was no fun to turn.

[courtney]

has anyone driven or does anyone own one those land tamer machines? they look pretty cool

[hdble]

I have been reading this thread, kind of funny really, this argument could be about any vehicle in the world.
I have driven many 6x6's,maybe not as many as some,or as fast and springgy as some(Whipper & Bridget) yet, but I prefer the T-20 clad, it's just personal preference. It doesn't make it better or worse,as the old saying goes,"there all good ones till they break,then you call them ##*@$#%@#".
You all know what I'm saying,but we fix them and then go out again.
All these machines are popular,I believe Jeff was right,the region where you live, and your experience make a particular make or model the one you like best.I run an Attex, but much like others, the body basic frame and t-20 are all that is left of the original setup.

Bruce

[mudbug3]

The 8 wheel avenger was the first argo to have lower center axles.. the 4 middle axles are 1" lower on centerline. Reason is to reduce traction for easier steering effort. Being front heavy, it tilts forward, weight centered basically near the second axle, the rear wheels slightly off the ground, if on a flat and level slab. So turning effort is about like a six wheeler. Or if loaded in the back the pivot center will shift.. but regardless there usually aren't 8 wheels to skid. I did this to my older Response, redrilled and bored the frame and lowered the axles a 1/2".

The parts diagram for the new Frontier 6 wheeler's frame is drawn with lowered holes in the center axles. An argo dealer said the factory considered doing that but the final product did not have it, so it may be just a printing error. All of the older argos like bigfoots, vanguards, response, conquest have level axle centerlines.

Handling problems? front heavy, touchy brakes, and non beadlock wheels/ high psi for rough ride/poor control at speed of the pre Frontier 6 wheelers. The stretched wheelbase and soft tires on the Frontier, along with a 23 hp and a quiet helical gear trans is a long way from your friend's argo. Al James went from his maxII 23 kohler to a frontier and said he didn't miss the II at all.

But unless you beat the steering effort into submission with horsepower, argo's are a dog to turn. You can do the 360 you're talking about, but you have to get the belt engaged first, just for a split second. Get the differential in motion. But that is what I consider the worst about the argo, not that it's an open diff, but that in the 360 with one side locked, the gear ratio to the other side is doubled. Something like the Frontier it's not a concern.. my 8 wheeler stock with taller agressive tires.. that was no fun to turn.

Roger,

That was the best explanation of an Argo , of any I,ve read so far

[Roger S]

We need to remember that everyone has a different idea of what "use" is. The two stroke guys like relativly smooth terrain where they can open it up. My group is a boondock crew of ripping up the skid plate over rock ledge and knocking down trees. Some ranchers and farmers mount a fifth wheel in their Avenger for their trailers. Whipper has evolved mind boggling comfortable long distance desert runners.

As for speed, when we get on a main trail, everyone seems to run wide open without a problem if they want to.

[RKlingborg]

as for speed of an Argo mine is guverend to 23 mph, I manged to go 24mph for a shot while going down a steep hill. The tires on the Frontier stick to the conceit like glue and you have to prety much give it full throutle to turn, but talking to the tech at the Argo dealer, some one warout one side by doing dounuts.

[wommy]

The transmissions

Why I bought Max was 90% the tranny. I took the Argo for a number of test runs, each time found I could not do a smooth turn, had to jerk the levers, even with the Avenger. I was told by the dealer that to ease the brakes would severely overheat them. So, on the longer trips, very uncomfortable. 6X6 don't run dead straight, and nor do the tracks, so requiring many small corrections, with Argo they have to be jerks. With the Max a slight pull on one lever gives a gentle sweep turn, long as you like. Back further to braking point and the turn gets quicker, pull to the point of full lockup and do a 360. Brake a bit quick down a steep grade and a 6X6 Argo WILL endo, guaranteed, not sure about the 8 wheelers. I am getting used to my Max over time, but I still far prefer the looks of either Argo, the 8X8 Avenger really looks great. I did wait for the Avenger to come out before I made my choice, hoping the "new" transmission as they called it with T bar would solve the problem. As it was a while ago, I don't remember, can you brake both sides with the handlebar?. For mine it has to be the T20, or whatever the Hoot system is for really comfortable aatv-ing.

[kovac]

I do agree with you on the long trips. It was much easier to make slight adjustments with the max. I have to make many jerky corrections with my avenger. but other than that the avenger is much more comfortable.

[mightymaxIV]

Maxiv with a t-20

I do agree with you on the long trips. It was much easier to make slight adjustments with the max. I have to make many jerky corrections with my avenger. but other than that the avenger is much more comfortable.

I must agree with the steering comments. I test drove an Argo frontier and though it was a beautiful vehicle but I did find that it was hard to control and I kept thinking about how every imput on the handlebar was causing a braking action to the left or right side and causing a loss of six wheel drive. I came home and drove my Max around the yard a couple of times and found that it was much easier to control with a combination of stick and throttle and really much more enjoyable to drive. I do love the ground clearance on the frontier and wish that RC would go to work updating their machine by lowing the engine, putting the t-20 under the back seat, spreading the wheel base out a little and designing the machine for more ground clearance. I also wish they would put a high and low range on the Max for extreme conditions. If you could lower the center of gravity on a MaxIV and get the ground clearance up to 12" along with about 6" more wheelbase (better ride more back seat room-bigger tires) you would have a machine with no equal! Please RC, make me happy!!!!!! While I am dreaming, why not make a 27", 12 inch wide four ply version of the Argo Frontier tire-add a smooth bottom to the Max and you now have a vehicle no one else can touch! Come on rc, get with the program!!!!!