Max or Argo

[jerseybigfoot]

Okayyyyy mightymaxIV, first off you did not have to shout, second I have a few atv's under my belt. I own and drive a Hustler, Attex an Argo Bigfoot and a few Scramblers.
The Argo open Differential traction issue is not as big a shortcoming as a lot of people on this board believe and can be compensated. It's not a 2 wheel drive pick up with an open differential.

Yes there is a big difference in lateral feel when the springs are removed. Been there don that.

[boncrshr]

Sounds like Ford vs. Chevy...hehehe.

As a Hustler driver with zero experience in other machines, there are certain things I admire/perceive about the other major brands.
Argo: Great carrying capacity with well planned cargo space, the 8x8's look like they rock in the muck, especially with the Escargo tracks.
Max: Powerful, fast workhorse that's good/great in the mud. Built tough and cheap to maintain.
Attex: Fast, sound cool, comfortable looking seating, like the looks of the tub.
Hustler: IMO, the precursor to the Max IV. Downside was axle set-up, poor swimmer, seating for 4 jockeys.

For me, I like fixing up older stuff...I guess I like being nickle and dimed to death, rather than paying up front! But my next machine, when I have more shop space, will probably be a Kid.....

[mightymaxIV]

Okayyyyy mightymaxIV, first off you did not have to shout, second I have a few atv's under my belt. I own and drive a Hustler, Attex an Argo Bigfoot and a few Scramblers.
The Argo open Differential traction issue is not as big a shortcoming as a lot of people on this board believe and can be compensated. It's not a 2 wheel drive pick up with an open differential.

Yes there is a big difference in lateral feel when the springs are removed. Been there don that.

Didn't mean to be so aggressive, thanks! I've gotten use to the springs and that is what I like-again thanks!

[Robio_8x8]

I see your point but..

There are many different machines out there that used the Borg Warner T-20, so maybe you could find a second AATV with the T-20 in it. You can never have too many AATVs!

And Dan, you are the man when it comes to deep extreme mud boggin'! I can't imagine any other AATV besides the Mud Ox that could stick with you in the terrain you navigate......except possibly my Hustler 980 BIGFOOT when I get the Kenda Executioners on it. I hopefully will be doing some riding with some of you guys south of the Mason-Dixon later this year.

One I would like to try to put a T-20in an Argo to see if it can be done
Two I like the Argos seating arrangement and space
Three it is hard to find another machine because you keep getting them

[jpswift1]

One I would like to try to put a T-20in an Argo to see if it can be done
Two I like the Argos seating arrangement and space
Three it is hard to find another machine because you keep getting them

Haha, yea I have been getting a lot of machines because it is a sickness that has no cure. You will catch it too once you buy another machine, and another and another.................................. There have to be some machines north of the border that you could get your hands on. Find a lime green colored Northway Explorer 6 which is the same thing as a Max II (which was built with parts manufactured by Recreatives Industries and assembled in Canada) They were sold in Canada and if you can find one, I'll buy the body and running gear and you can take the T-20.

[artist1018]

I,ve been around aatv's since the 1960's and I decided on an Argo 8x8. Why!?! Well, for me, A: I needed the room for more passengers. I have 2 grandkids who like to ride, as do thier parents. B: The ride is more comfortable that a 6x6. C: It is more stable in the water, even if it is slightly nose heavy, a motor on the back corrects the leveling problem. D. With tracks, when needed, the Conquest is almost unstoppable!
As far as "true" all-wheel drive, I have NEVER had a problem with all 8 wheels doing what they are asked to do with the right handling of the controls.

[mightymaxIV]

If the Argo dealer in Summerville had a Frontier 650 I would proably own one right now. The only thing they have in stock now are the 16 horse 480. I just don't think that thing has the power I so much crave!

[Marc]

I have to say i dont understand the hype about the T20.
Which does not mean i dont like the Max.
I know both types and many others but in my opinion the T20 is havy, big, hard to adjust and even harder to repair cause the brakebands are inside.
Fortunately Max made it a bit easier in repairing at all cause you can lift the whole top body.
I drive both Argo and Max but everytime i change the vehicle i have to think about which lever i have to pull to turn in reverse. At the Argo forward and reverse are the same but at the max braking changes in reverse. Also the often told lowspeed range is very handy in high power use, for example if you pull a trailer or driving over an obstacle. At the Max you have to play much more with the gas to get the right feeling. And the riding comfort of a Max is also not the best. Maybe this is only my opinion but the Argo drives a little bit softer, could also be a result of the softer Runamuk tires.
I think the main disadvantage of the Argo is the water. It always haeds down and it is realy slow (4 km/h never!!!) and the 155 kg payload in water (6x6) i nearly have alone and leaving the water with a differential is also not without problems. Offroad i never had a problem with the frontweight.
If i must choose then i would keep the Argo cause it is a bit more comfortable (if you could say that about an AATV anyway) has 4 seats (and i have 2 children) and we dont have much lakes. The transmission would only play the second reason.
By the way i dont understand why noone uses the old clutch and brakesystem like it was used in the Vamoose. Lightweigt, mechancial simple, easy to repair, both drivetrains work independant like in the T20 and with a simple transmission on top of it it could have reverse and lowrange. I have a Pan in which this system works very fine. The only disadvantage - it needs to stay clean and dry.

To all Max fans - dont hit me i love you all !

[kovac]

I have expirence with the max IV, and now own an avenger. I have to say I dont notice any power loss when turning. I have the 750 efi. this thing seems to have unlimited power. It doesn seem like it is unstoppable with the tracks. I dont know about the tires yet as I have only driven it with tracks so far. It is very comfortable. I loved the max but this thing is tough to beat

[mightymaxIV]

I have expirence with the max IV, and now own an avenger. I have to say I dont notice any power loss when turning. I have the 750 efi. this thing seems to have unlimited power. It doesn seem like it is unstoppable with the tracks. I dont know about the tires yet as I have only driven it with tracks so far. It is very comfortable. I loved the max but this thing is tough to beat

Thanks for the imput,since you have owned a Max your in a great position to let everyone else know what you think! I keep hoping that I will get to see an Avenger in action but no one around here owns one. They loook like a fun machine but, man they are big!

[mightymaxIV]

Mark the Hoot also has a really neat simple drive system. If they would give machine more power, more ground clearance and make a two seater they would be ready for prime time!

[kovac]

I know they seem real big but they are not that much bigger than the IV. they are "57.25 (just measured outside to outside of rubber edge) wide verses "56 it is "23 longer but the extra room is awesome. It's nicely laid out

[jerrynuss]

Almost 2 feet longer is a big difference and the 2 extra wheels make the Avenger and other 8X8 Argos entirely different machines. I've always compared the Max IV to the Bigfoot but never the 8X8s.

Since people are comparing I get a lot of calls from people interested an amphibious atv. They normally ask if I sell Argos, meaning amphibious ATV's.

Yesterday I was down in Arkansas at a gas station. I had a Max on a trailer. I was approached by several people and they commented on the Max but they were calling it a Hustler. It was so different to hear that.

[micmac]

Just some thoughts on the topic:

Argo vs Max: All these machines are great fun and should be treated as such. Just find a machine that will fit your needs and enjoy it.

Fitting your Needs: That depends on $ you can spend, places you'll ride, People carrying capacity, ability or desire to tinker upgrade modify I.E. older vs newer machines

Just some random thoughts on the late model machines:

Argo: If you live up north and need tracks the Avenger is the clear winner with their OEM or aftermarket tracks. These are Canadian built machines and probably is the reason for the high quality track systems.

The 8x8 are the winner in the ride quality and hill climbing ability category.

Argos have a better flange / bearing / bearing extender waterproof system than Max. The bearing extenders are high quality and purpose-built for the tracks and come standard on the higher end Argos.

Water crossing characteristics for Argo tends to be nose heavy and can only take 4 persons in the 8x8 or 2 in the 6x6. The frontier has good water speed due to it's tires and Hull design. The Argo roll bar system is a true ROPS but it's not approved for water operation

The lower body of the newer Argos have better ground clearance in the middle which is a benefit in Mud and snow in reducing the drag and the high centered tendencies. This is the reason these vehicles (all of them) usually stop forward progress and are not really "stuck"

Argo is a larger corporation with all the pros and cons. They seem to have a genuine interest in changing / developing all new vehicles/ and marketing their equipment from year to year. I'm not sure on customer service / warranty.

Transmission : It's an open diff but the system seems to work. It requires maintenance on brake pads and rotors. It needs cooling fans for the trans brakes during warmer temps but the fan can drain the battery power when using lights winch etc. Many people put a switch on this so they have control over it.

The 6x6 Argos are more comfortable with only 2 passenger. The back jump-seats are not large enough for full size adults.

The new Argos are more expensive than the Maxes. The Avengers can top $20,000 with all the options. These machines are the favorites with professional outfitters and large outdoor companies.

I'm not sure about the avenger but I read the Frontier doesn't have chain adjusters on the front (or maybe the drive chains?) which doesn't seem logical?

Argos are front engined and the exhaust tends to be in front of the cabin. I hunt and wouldn't want to go in the woods smelling like exhaust.



Max: The newer ones have plenty of power with higher engine outputs available.

R.I. tends to evolve their products rather than quantum leaps to new designs but if it ain't broke don't fix it.

RI has great customer service and they are very helpful with any questions you might have on newer and older machines. They are genuinely helpful to their customers and offer advice on modifications and any issues you might have.

The Max II has good legroom and is a great fun 2 person machine. The Max IV has decent legroom front and back and can hold 4 full size adults.

The Max IV roll bar works and can be used in the water.

The Max IV trans is under the engine which raises the engine and CG and makes everything difficult to get to to fix / adjust / clean. I wish they would move it under the rear seat.

The T - 20 is a great system and just works. It was designed in a time when we put people on the moon with slide rules. It's not perfect but it's easy to work on and if taken care of all it needs is to be adjusted occasionally and fluid changed. It is two trans sharing a case and provides true 6 wheel drive.

The Maxes are balanced and light and float evenly but tend to be a bit tippy in the water.

The upper body of the Maxes are closer to the tires and therefore need smaller tires and extenders to fit tracks. The RI track kits in my opinion are slightly mickey-mouse and not purpose built for these machines like the Argo ones. Also the lower body due to the small tires and more drag due to more surface area on the belly are a liability with tracks on.

The Max IV can come with 26 inch tires which have a rougher ride but have great traction and good water speed

Max uses Larger 72mm wheel bearings vs the smaller 62mm on the Argos. Although they don't use as nice of axle retainer waterproof flange system as Argo

Max uses a center seat driver position but can be driven from either side without difficulty. Argo has a right driver side position.

Max can trans brake both sides at the same time plus a foot brake for parking and emergency a plus in down hill situations. Argo lost the ability to trans brake both sides at the same time with the new steering bar system. They use a hand brake that had some problems early on but I think they fixed the issue.

Speaking of uphill / downhill the Avenger is the best due to it's wheelbase the 6x6 are about the same in my opinion.



I think that's about it. I like my Max but would also like an Argo.

My reason for getting an older Max IV was I needed room for a family and the price was right. If I had found an Argo in my budget I would have considered one of those as well.

A side note here: in the U.S. the states are adopting a lot of policies that exclude the larger machines from public lands. I really feel no matter what machines we drive we should get more active to promote the fun / safety / of these machines and try to open up the land that the 4 wheelers are able to utilize but we can't. Also we need to be proactive to keep the ones we currently can use open.

Best regards

Mike

[jpswift1]

Mike, thanks for taking the time to post all of that information up.......thanks for putting all of that out there for everyone to consider.


Jerry, when I was down in Alabama picking up my Hustler 980 BIGFOOT everyone I ran into called 6 wheelers in general "Hustlers." "Isn't there some company up north that makes those 6 wheeled Hustlers today?" "How many 6 wheel Hustlers do you own?" Quite a few, but there are many different makes and models in my collection, I would reply. "Wow you must really love 6wheel Hustlers."