Electric 6 wheeler?

[lewis]

I work with a bunch of electrical wiz bangs. I think i will get them to look at this project and get some input.(they would love the challenge)(may have a few suggestions)

The plant i work at has a lot of electrical reps that are always wanting to sell new electrical components. Gray Bar is one of our vendors,(we use ac and dc motors)

There are also manuals on line that help you make good choices for controllers, motors and other components. This may come to late for you right now but, as in all projects unless you have a million bucks, you work off of a budgit and get what you can afford. Seems you are well on the way.

I do think the disconnect is a very good idea. A runaway would be bad.
Keep us posted on the project. Good luck

Here is a site that may have some parts you could use: I don't think i am allowed to post the link, but they are: Cloud EV, EV products. There are many out there, this one even has manuals.

[Beeman]

Good points but, I'm wanting a vehicle I can truly take anywhere. One capable of an expedition or week long trail ride. I would welcome redundant motors, probably more than just two. And I think I'd like the generator section to be "modularized" so that people like yourself who don't require a vehicle to go into the Alaskan wilds or East Texas swamps could simply treat it like a golf cart and plug in overnight. The generator module could be mounted or demounted as required. That would give you the flexibility of easily offering a diesel or gas option. And I agree with you that I would like to design out the T-20 transmission, most of the chains and linkages and use "fly by wire" and control everything with joysticks. I would modularize everything for easy maintenance. A joystick goes bad? Pop four turn locks and put in a new one. A drive motor goes bad? Keep running on the remaining motors. Make the mounts easy to access so swapping a motor isn't a nightmare. I'd like the flexibility to run on two motors to save energy or kick in up to six (one per wheel) for full power. Maybe it could be designed for up to six but you can buy one larger motor per side and link the axles if you didn't want the redundancy.

What do you think would be a reasonable speed to expect or design to?
What about water speed?

I think a little gen attachment would be great!

[JRP3]

Good points but, I'm wanting a vehicle I can truly take anywhere. One capable of an expedition or week long trail ride. I would welcome redundant motors, probably more than just two. And I think I'd like the generator section to be "modularized" so that people like yourself who don't require a vehicle to go into the Alaskan wilds or East Texas swamps could simply treat it like a golf cart and plug in overnight. The generator module could be mounted or demounted as required. That would give you the flexibility of easily offering a diesel or gas option. And I agree with you that I would like to design out the T-20 transmission, most of the chains and linkages and use "fly by wire" and control everything with joysticks. I would modularize everything for easy maintenance. A joystick goes bad? Pop four turn locks and put in a new one. A drive motor goes bad? Keep running on the remaining motors. Make the mounts easy to access so swapping a motor isn't a nightmare. I'd like the flexibility to run on two motors to save energy or kick in up to six (one per wheel) for full power. Maybe it could be designed for up to six but you can buy one larger motor per side and link the axles if you didn't want the redundancy.

What do you think would be a reasonable speed to expect or design to?
What about water speed?

If you use 6 motors but want to be able to run on only 2 then you'd have to oversize each motor so it could take the full load, adding cost and weight to the vehicle. More reasonable might be to size the motors to be able to move the vehicle with only 4 in an emergency. Obviously 6 motors adds cost and complexity.

The "modular" generator idea is most easily handled by a tow behind trailer. It will be a sizable motor/generator combo that you won't be able to just pick up out of the machine.

With my single motor setup, 7.5 inch Yale, running at 48 volts with an overall ratio of 16.5 to 1 I expect to hit around 20 mph top speed, but I'm gearing mostly for low end work. More voltage will give you more speed, as will different gearing.
These things have really poor water shapes and I'd think 3-4 mph is about all you can expect.

[JRP3]

I think a little gen attachment would be great!

It won't be little. For example, at 48 volts if I draw 100 amps that would require a 5KW generator at least. Draw 200 amps over a long uphill or deep mud or something and you'd need twice that to keep up with demand. If you want something that can only supplement or recharge over a few hours while you wait then it could be smaller.

[Beeman]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeman
I think a little gen attachment would be great!

It won't be little. For example, at 48 volts if I draw 100 amps that would require a 5KW generator at least. Draw 200 amps over a long uphill or deep mud or something and you'd need twice that to keep up with demand. If you want something that can only supplement or recharge over a few hours while you wait then it could be smaller.

Yeah, I meant just for a backup to be able to get the unit home :P

[Wahoo]

If you use 6 motors but want to be able to run on only 2 then you'd have to oversize each motor so it could take the full load, adding cost and weight to the vehicle. More reasonable might be to size the motors to be able to move the vehicle with only 4 in an emergency. Obviously 6 motors adds cost and complexity.

The "modular" generator idea is most easily handled by a tow behind trailer. It will be a sizable motor/generator combo that you won't be able to just pick up out of the machine.

With my single motor setup, 7.5 inch Yale, running at 48 volts with an overall ratio of 16.5 to 1 I expect to hit around 20 mph top speed, but I'm gearing mostly for low end work. More voltage will give you more speed, as will different gearing.
These things have really poor water shapes and I'd think 3-4 mph is about all you can expect.

How are you calculating the top speed of 20 mph? What tire diameter are you using?

I'll get back to you on motor/current/generator figures. I've been talking with a company that builds ev's and state-of-the-art hybrid systems. It's not going to be cheap but, I don't feel it's worth doing if I can't go where the pure gas AATV's can go. They've got some impressive Auxiliary Power Units with 300 and 400 amp current limits that would fit nicely in a AATV form factor.

[JRP3]

I'm running a 21 inch tire, calculating a 6000rpm top speed for the motor, 16.5:1 ratio.

[JRP3]

Got a few pics of the progress on the motor mounts.





You might notice the extra holes on one mount, those are specifically calculated for airflow and reduced weight..............ok I messed up and had to re-drill

[JRP3]

[Beeman]

Looks good!

[dscheckman]

Hi, Don't know if its too late to get in on this thread. I'm working on a similar (exactly the same) project. Just picked up a pretty nice condition but old Max II. I'll sell the engine and possibly more. A couple of questions. Were you able to sell your engine? For how much? More importantly, do I understand the photos right that you aren't using the clutches and belt drive and are converting to a 1:1 chain drive between the motor and transmission? Is this because the electric motor will have full torque at low RPM's and with the controller does not need a clutch ? Thanks for any info. You are a bit ahead of me so I'll be really interested in how your project proceeds.
David Scheckman
Plainfield VT

[JRP3]

Hi, Don't know if its too late to get in on this thread. I'm working on a similar (exactly the same) project. Just picked up a pretty nice condition but old Max II. I'll sell the engine and possibly more. A couple of questions. Were you able to sell your engine? For how much? More importantly, do I understand the photos right that you aren't using the clutches and belt drive and are converting to a 1:1 chain drive between the motor and transmission? Is this because the electric motor will have full torque at low RPM's and with the controller does not need a clutch ? Thanks for any info. You are a bit ahead of me so I'll be really interested in how your project proceeds.
David Scheckman
Plainfield VT

Welcome to the world of electric 6 wheelers, population now 2
No one has bought my motor, but it's an old JLO 2 stroke and I don't think many people want them. I'm only asking $150.
You have it right, no clutches because they waste energy and are not needed with an electric motor. Clutches are only used because an ICE has to idle and to allow the motor to get up into the torque range. The electric motor has full torque available from 1 rpm and doesn't need to idle. I'm actually using a 1.5:1 chain drive to the transmission, which gives me a final drive ratio of 16.5:1 to the wheels. I'm doing this because I want lots of low end pulling power and don't care about top speed. I'll probably top out around 20mph.
I'll be posting some new pics to my photo gallery and I have a blog at
Building the AMPhibian
which I need to update soon.

[JRP3]

Motor mounts and chain adjuster finished:


Batteries in place:


I'll see how it feels with 240 lbs. of batteries in the back! If I start pulling wheelies all the time I might move 2 of them up front behind the dash where the gas tank was, though I'd rather keep the weight as low as possible. There is room in front of the T-20 for one if I re-work the shifter setup.

[lewis]

Nice

Very nice fab work and layout! Like the motor adjusting bolts(thats what i asume they are,good idea). Best of luck. Keep the pics comming on the progress.


Very interesting!

[Meinfield]

Nice work, Interesting project.