What might strip the starter engine gear?

[getwilde]

I've owned my 94(?) MaxIV for a few months. I'm still learning about it and small engines in general.

My MaxIV was running well, until yesterday when it started to make light 'clinking' noises back towards the engine. It did this intermittently for several minutes and i thought maybe it was just ice breaking off under the wheel-well. Then it made a rumbling noise and then a screech/groan. The engine died.

I tried to key-start the engine, but the starter only made a "whirring" sound, with accompanying clinking noise. It almost sounded like the teeth were stripped off the starter engine gear, or the gear has shattered and the plastic parts were bouncing around inside.

So I used the pull-rope to start the engine again. Started great with 1 pull. While out-of-gear, I revved it to full RPMs and everything sounded fine. However, when I put it in forward gear, and slowly revved, I moved a few feet then heard the groan and screech again, and the engine died.

So, any ideas? Is there anything that could happen in the drive-train or transmission or axles (seized/broken bearings?) that could damage the starter engine? I'm still reading up on how to remove the starter engine to check it. (I'll tackle that this weekend.) I don't even know where to begin on the larger groan/screech that I'm hearing while rolling forward in gear.

[getwilde]

I went out and inspected my MaxIV today in full light, and found the cause of the groans and squeals: The bearing on my back left axle has shattered, and the balls are rolling around inside my tub. I found a couple of good articles about how to replace the outer bearing: http://www.6x6world.com/forums/gener...t.html?garpg=4, Route6x6.com - 6 and 8 wheel ATV how to's Argo, Max, Hustler and others wheel bearing

It looks pretty straightforward. My setup looks the same as the photos, except the sheet metal flange has 4 bolts instead of 3. Is Richards Relics a good place to buy replacement, or should I go through Recreatives (or somewhere else)?

I'm still mystified how a broken bearing would have damaged my starter engine...

[boncrshr]

Hey GetWilde,

JPSwift hooked me up with Buffalo Bearing, I just purchased 6 new outer wheel bearings from them. They are triple sealed for 14 bucks! Their # is 716-874-1721.

[Mike]

I would do as boncrshr suggested and get them from another source. Much cheaper that way.

[getwilde]

Thanks for the advice. I'll give them a call.

[jpswift1]

I think the 62mm Max bearings are a Peer bearing (part number HC-206) If it is a 72mm outside diameter I'm not sure what the part number is off hand, but the guys at Buffalo Bearing would be able to help you out. Make sure you tell them that Jeff, the guy with all the 6 wheelers sent you and they will take care of you. Good luck with it.

[getwilde]

I gave Buffalo Bearings a call, and told them you sent me, Jeff. They were out of stock on the HC-206, so I had them order a couple for me. $17 each plus shipping. Still a better price than anything I found online, and triple sealed! I'm wondering if I should have bought 6! Guess I'll wait to see how much work it is to replace one, first.

[mxwillee]

getwilde, Did you figure out the starter?

[philipatmaxfour]

damaged starter

I went out and inspected my MaxIV today in full light, and found the cause of the groans and squeals: The bearing on my back left axle has shattered, and the balls are rolling around inside my tub. I found a couple of good articles about how to replace the outer bearing: http://www.6x6world.com/forums/gener...t.html?garpg=4, Route6x6.com - 6 and 8 wheel ATV how to's Argo, Max, Hustler and others wheel bearing

It looks pretty straightforward. My setup looks the same as the photos, except the sheet metal flange has 4 bolts instead of 3. Is Richards Relics a good place to buy replacement, or should I go through Recreatives (or somewhere else)?

I'm still mystified how a broken bearing would have damaged my starter engine...

Getwilde- Can you tell us anything new about the starter motor??

[getwilde]

Getwilde- Can you tell us anything new about the starter motor??

Hi guys. Sorry for the delayed response. (Need to re-subscribe to this thread.)

My replacement bearings arrived yesterday. So I spent this morning removing my engine (Briggs & Stratton Vanguard, 18HP). I just left it attached to the table/shelf and removed the whole thing. From there, I spent nearly an hour trying to remove the starter engine. Geez... who designed that thing!? I cannot reach that second bolt that's behind the gear shaft!

Looking into the hole where the starter gear engages the flywheel, I could see what looked like a broken edge of black plastic. I'm pretty sure it's the starter gear that's busted off. But I need to remove the starter to get a better look, then fish out the pieces. Is there a chance that other bits of plastic have slid down to the bottom of the flywheel and/or elsewhere? Do I need to tear into that part of the engine to clean everything up? Or does the starter gear sit in a cavity that's fairly well enclosed?

I'm still mystified how this happened. The engine pull-starts fine, and runs fine. I don't understand how a broken bearing would put stress on and/or break the starter gear. Maybe it wasn't disengaging, but still...

[getwilde]

I think the 62mm Max bearings are a Peer bearing (part number HC-206)

Is the inner bearing the same part as the outer bearing? I followed this walk-through (http://www.6x6world.com/forums/gener...placement.html) and expected to have difficulty removing the sprocket from the axle. But that part was a breeze. What I *am* having difficulty with is removing the inner bearing from the end of the axle! I removed the set screw and loosened the eccentric locking collar. I sprayed with PB Blaster and let it sit for a while. When it still wouldn't budge, I removed the 4 bolts and 2 flanges that sandwich the inner bearing, attaching it to the frame. (In other words, my machine doesn't have the cast-iron casing assy... but two flanges that look like the ones encasing the outer bearing.) Still no luck. I even heated it for 15-20 min with a blow-torch... apparently not long enough to turn red... but long enough to stop smoking because all the grease had burned off.

Aren't these bearings supposed to just slide around on the axle once the eccentric locking collar is released? What am I missing?

If 62mm is the correct size for the inner bearing, I won't worry as much about damaging the current one in my attempts to remove it.

[Roger S]

Get a replacement gear from Briggs, not an aftermarket part. The plastic is better if OEM. Lube the shaft and bushing behind the gear while you're there. The engine cover isn't too much trouble to remove if you want it off.

When you put the starter back on, make sure you don't pinch the stator wires.. there's a place for them to tuck in against the engine.

[getwilde]

From there, I spent nearly an hour trying to remove the starter engine. Geez... who designed that thing!? I cannot reach that second bolt that's behind the gear shaft!

I finally got the starter off and replaced the plastic pinion gear. Per Roger's suggestion, I bought the OEM part (thanks Roger).

If it helps anyone else, here are some photos of how I managed to remove the bolt behind the starter gear shaft.

Basically I ground down an old 1/2" socket, then attached it to the narrowest-shafted driver I could find, rotated the drive clutch just right, and it fit! Here are some photos to help others.

[getwilde]

Is the inner bearing the same part as the outer bearing?

Yes, it appears to be the same size. (Is it lame to be answering my own questions? Hopefully it will help someone else. )

What I *am* having difficulty with is removing the inner bearing from the end of the axle! I removed the set screw and loosened the eccentric locking collar. I sprayed with PB Blaster and let it sit for a while. When it still wouldn't budge, I removed the 4 bolts and 2 flanges that sandwich the inner bearing, attaching it to the frame. (In other words, my machine doesn't have the cast-iron casing assy... but two flanges that look like the ones encasing the outer bearing.) Still no luck. I even heated it for 15-20 min with a blow-torch... apparently not long enough to turn red... but long enough to stop smoking because all the grease had burned off.

Aren't these bearings supposed to just slide around on the axle once the eccentric locking collar is released? What am I missing?

I finally got the inner bearing off the axle. When the slide hammer didn't work, I tried using a gear puller, borrowed from the local PepBoys, to pull the inner bearing off the end of the axle. I put so much stress on the outer collar of the bearing that it busted in half. Ball bearings flew everywhere. And the inner collar slid onto the axle further! But because that happened, I could see that the end/corners of the axle had a slightly raised 'lip'... like it had been hit with a hammer and mushroomed (except that no hammer had hit it). So after ruining a rasp/file on it -- that's hard metal! -- I used my grinder to *barely* take off enough metal for the bearing parts and sprocket to slide off. From there it was smooth sailing... now my MaxIV is put back together and I'm driving again.

[jpswift1]

I've replaced a plastic starter gear on the Briggs a time or two......not a fun job, but it isn't so bad now that I know how to do it. My 16HP Vanguard that I'm putting in my Attex has what looks to be an aluminum or some type of metal, starter gear (the way they should be made) so hopefully I won't have to go replacing it like I do with the crummy little plastic one on some of my other Vanguard engines. Thanks for posting up the pictures too.