Red Spring install HELP!!!!!

[fulleraviation]

Guys I lost the directions for the preload. How much pre-twist is needed on the red spring install?

I researched prior posts on the subject but no one said how much. I saw the pulley move but not sure how much.

I have it back together with a quarter turn of twist. Want to make sure its right prior to putting everthing back together, which I hope is in the morning.

Thanks,
Rutledge

[mudbug3]

Guys I lost the directions for the preload. How much pre-twist is needed on the red spring install?

I researched prior posts on the subject but no one said how much. I saw the pulley move but not sure how much.

I have it back together with a quarter turn of twist. Want to make sure its right prior to putting everthing back together, which I hope is in the morning.

Thanks,
Rutledge

Rutledge ,

Last summer my friend and I insalled the red spring on my Max IV . I,m pretty sure that the red spring won,t turn any more than what you have it now . I was also concerned about that myself , when we installed the red spring on my Max IV . If you look very carefully , you will see " wear marks " in the direction where the stock spring was attached prior to disassembly . If I remember correctly , once the red spring is attached exactly where the stock green spring came off , you will not be able to turn the red spring very much at all . This works out to about a quarter of a turn , because you can,t make a complete rotation ,, the Red spring is just too strong .

[fulleraviation]

Thanks MudBug!

I cant even remember if I had directions or just read the information from this GREAT site. I will put it ALL back together.


I also took apart my engine driven clutch yesterday to take a look. I noticed a great deal of wear on the inside of the "derby cover". There was also noticeable wear on the lower clutch that I installed the Red spring in the area of contact. I have 131 hours of my Max IV. Does anyone know if this is normal and at what point would you replace both units?

Thanks again,
Rutledge

[fulleraviation]

Red Spring Review

Got it all back together. Ended up with just under a have a turn of twist on the spring. Install took about 4 to 6 hours. Did it all myself with no help. Learned alot more about my machine!

Review. I feel it is more of a subtle change for the good. Hill climbs great, and doesn't lug as much in deep thick mud. Acceleration not much different to me, and maybe more with the 18 Vanguard. Big engine guys might notice a difference. Before the engine lugged alittle to top speed trying to keep up with the transmission, now the transmission tries to keep up with the engine. Speed seems to be more controlable and the Max slows down faster, which I think is a plus.

If the 6X6 ferry showed up and installed the Red Spring for me without me knowing, I would know that something was alittle different but not drastic. I would feel that the machine had better low end power with top end exactly the same.

If you were thinking about updating, I would wait until you had a reason to get to the transmission for another reason or chain replacement and then throw it in. Two birds with one stone theory. It is alot of work!

I do give the Red Spring a thumbs up!

Rutledge

[mudbug3]

Got it all back together. Ended up with just under a have a turn of twist on the spring. Install took about 4 to 6 hours. Did it all myself with no help. Learned alot more about my machine!

Review. I feel it is more of a subtle change for the good. Hill climbs great, and doesn't lug as much in deep thick mud. Acceleration not much different to me, and maybe more with the 18 Vanguard. Big engine guys might notice a difference. Before the engine lugged alittle to top speed trying to keep up with the transmission, now the transmission tries to keep up with the engine. Speed seems to be more controlable and the Max slows down faster, which I think is a plus.

If the 6X6 ferry showed up and installed the Red Spring for me without me knowing, I would know that something was alittle different but not drastic. I would feel that the machine had better low end power with top end exactly the same.

If you were thinking about updating, I would wait until you had a reason to get to the transmission for another reason or chain replacement and then throw it in. Two birds with one stone theory. It is alot of work!

I do give the Red Spring a thumbs up!

Rutledge

Rutledge ,

Thumbs up for the exellent red spring reveiw , and also for doing this modification all by yourself , which is an exercise in frustration at times .

[fulleraviation]

There are several ways to hold the pieces together when assembling. A previous thread used 12 inch piece of all-thread through the clutch assembly. This is a good idea, but I didn't have any.

I used a sturdy table and three ratchet straps. One to hold the pulley side or base and two to compress the spring.

Parts did fly skyward twice, but I Goter Dun!

One of these days Im going to break down and buy a nice shop press. I thought about building a wooden fixture and use a bottle jack. Figured the straps would be quicker and easier.

Sometimes it's fun to do things the unconventional way.

[liflod]

I was camping all weekend and today when I go home, I pulled the engine and trans for my red clutch spring change. I finished the install only to find this post on the board. According to Jay at RI, you need to turn the clutch "2 Bumps " I think it turned out to be about 3/4 of a turn. I held the clutch with my feet on the floor and pushed and turned and it slid over the key.

That was the easy part. Changing the left rear sprocket after I inspected it to find some missing teeth is going to be the real pain in the ass. Along with new chains on the transmission side. I may have to upgrade to the snap ring axles and sprockets while I'm in there . OUCH $$$$$$

[George]

I wonder if I could sucker...err, umm talk some of my good friends into helping me with this conversion at Ledges this summer.

[liflod]

The slowing down of your machine faster is what I am looking for in the spring update/upgrade. That would indicate a faster back-shift where the system will drop into lower gear sooner. At the Ledges, I carry my wife and 3 kids with me. With the 18 in it, I could use the "lower" gearing. Should help in the mud and the slower trail riding.

It took me about 2 hours to get the spring changed. That was removing the engine, transmission and pressure washing everything twice. Assembly will take place after I get my other new parts.

Of course, now is the time to change the engine and trans fluids while everything is easy to get at.

[fulleraviation]

Hey Liflod!

I am probably going to try different springs in the engine driven clutch too. This should act like a stall torque converter in a car. I am going to call RI today and inquire. They suggested the Red Spring first. Sorry to hear about your sprokets.

If anyone has tried different springs in the engine driven clutch, I would like to hear about your results.

Happy Trails,
Rutledge

[liflod]

I talked to Jay about the drive clutch when I ordered the Red spring. There are some options. I would highly recommend buying a tachometer first and get an idea of the RPM your engine is running. I plan on buying one to keep in my toolbox as opposed to mounting it in one machine.

You also installed the rev kit ??

[fulleraviation]

I have a tachometer, and did complete the engine work. Installed the double springs and upgraded spring retainers. Also installed the thin head gaskets = to shaving the head 30 thou. Installed steal pushrods and a timimg advance key. These components equal to alittle more than just a rev kit. I am very happy with the upgrades and feel it is more reliable. I have been running at 4,000 rpm on long runs and short blips to 4,500 - 4,800 rpm. It is nice to have some extra throttle left to help turn when running at 4K.

If I do any more engine work, I will install a mild cam and while there new upgraded rods. Going to stay away from any more compression, it's pretty hard to pull start with the new head gaskets and want to still run pump gas.

I need to look at the parts manual again, I am not sure that my stock cam has a built in compression release. My stock starter has problems somtimes depending on where the engine is on compression stroke.

[George]

Clearly this modification is more involved than I originally thought.

[liflod]

In theory the engine RPM should be constant through the shifting of the torque converter. Did you notice a change in RPM with the red clutch spring? What is the engines RPM now? What is the engagement RPM?

I'm just trying to gather some data for my future mods. What tach are you using?

[fulleraviation]

Ah, Ah, Ahhhh.

I have a crappy tach hour meter, but believe it stays in the low 3,000 to 3,500 rpm range through belt run-out. I am not saying this is accurate, just what the Honda brand tach/hour reads.

Engagement? I prefer to stay single! Oh sorry---I will have to check. I will get back with better numbers hopefully this evening.
Seems like the same old RPM's just lower gear.

Rut