Bought a Lemon . . . Need Some Advice

[Rolling_X_6]

I bought a used 2000 Max IV. I paid ENOUGH for it because I thought it was in great condition—with less than 200 hours of use—therefore worth the money. I got it home only to realize IMMEDIATELY—while unloading it—that something (or several “somethings”) was wrong with the machine. It was obvious that the thing was not right by the terrible noises it made and by the poor performance it showed when trying to turn. So, I talked to someone from the forum and some people from MAX who all gave me a list of possible problems that might cause these noises and actions. I was told that if my 6X6 had any one of these problems, that would account for the symptoms I was experiencing.

I was not happy, but I accepted the fact that I may need to correct any one of these possible problems. But, I was not prepared to end up needing to correct ALL of those possible problems. If ONLY I were exaggerating . . . but, I am not!!!

I was told that perhaps the drive chains were loose. They might even be loose because they were worn out and stretched, needing replaced. Perhaps they are loose because the idler sprockets’ bearings are shot. It turns out that both drive chains are shot and both idler sprocket bearings are junk, too. One of the two idler sprocket bearings was completely disintegrated. The other one just “needed replaced” while I was at it.

I was told that perhaps the teeth were knocked off of a sprocket causing the symptoms I was experiencing. Well, sure enough, I had THAT problem, too. The double drive sprocket on the left rear had the one sprocket partially wiped.

I was told that perhaps the T-20 transmission was loose and moving around. I was told that this can happen when some of the transmission bolts shear off allowing the tranny to move around. Sure enough . . . two of the four transmission bolts are sheared off in the T-20 housing, which I cannot get out, yet. I was told that the frame can twist where the T-20 mounts causing such symptoms as I was seeing. Yeps . . . when the bolts sheared off, that happened, too--the frame got slightly twisted. I was also told that perhaps the T-20 transmission fluid was low; maybe it leaked out or something. Sure enough . . . the tranny DOES leak . . . and from various locations on the T-20: such as from the center join and from the brake plungers (or whatever they're called).

Wow!!! I am not sure of what else even COULD do wrong . . . but, please don’t tell me, or else it will.

So, I have two questions for you fine folks on the forum:

1. What do you recommend I do about this leaking T-20??? Just let it go??? Rebuild it??? Thoughts???

2. What caliber gun do you recommend I use to put this machine out of its misery (and mine)??? And, how deep of a hole do you recommend I bury it in???

But seriously . . . I would appreciate any and all advice you can offer to me . . . about the T-20 problems I mentioned or concerning any of the issues I listed.

[Mike]

Well, I can feel your frustration but look at it this way, while there are a lot of issues to be addressed, none of them are really that serious or difficult to fix. Tackle them one at a time and pretty soon you will have the Max IV that you thought you paid for.

Start by pulling the T20 completely out of the Max (after removing the engine and engine mount). This way you can get in there and straighten the frame properly hopefully without removing the frame from the Max. If you need help there post some pictures of the frame once you get everything torn out.

Once you get the frame straightened you can replace the sprocket, idler sprockets, and chain. While you are in there check all of your other bearings.

Then tackle the T20 itself. It sounds like you just need a seal kit so order one from the factory Amphibious Six-Wheel Drive All-Terrain Vehicles: MaxATVs - Call 1-800-255-2511 and follow the guide here to help you replace everything: http://www.6x6world.com/forums/aatv-...r-rebuild.html Or if you don't want to rebuild it, it really won't hurt much if it is leaking a little as long as you keep an eye on the level of ATF in it. Another thought, if the T20 is overfilled it will leak back out the vent hole and run down the T20. Make sure that isn't the case first before you do anything else.

For the sheared off bolts in the T20 you can drill a hole in the center of the bolt and use an easy out extractor to back the bolts out.

Don't worry too much about things and just take them one step at a time. Before long you will be back in business. Good luck and post back here if you run into any problems.

[Eldon]

You didn't buy a lemon,you bought a severely abused and neglected machine.Its really unfortunate, no question.You noticed the problems unloading but obviously not before purchase.One reason why I am not comfortable with sight-unseen purchases.Any of the problems mentioned can be fixed of course but this all costs money. Best of luck with your project.You will know your machine inside out when everything is in good working order and will get a lot of enjoyment from it.These machines are about as much fun as anything out there but must have a maintenance schedule followed strictly,a downside of these over other recreational machines out there and even quads need maintenance too.

[Mike]

One more thing. If you are feeling the pain from the cost of parts try posting a wanted ad here in the classified forum. You may be able to save a little $$$ if someone has what you are looking for.

[Rolling_X_6]

Thanks, Mike!!!

Mike--

I know what you mean . . . it is NOT that big of a deal . . . just a kick in the "nuts and bolt."

I already DID rip the engine out. I already did rip the T-20 out. I already did straighten out the frame. I already did order all of the parts I need, so far: 530 o-ring chain, two idler sprocket bearings, left-rear double sprocket, and some other maintenance items. Plus, I already did try to get the one bolt out using an "easy-out." But, it would not budge. And, you do NOT want to twist off an easy-out in a bolt, or you ARE done for . . . because there is no drilling those out. At this point, I am considering just drilling out the broken off bolt and then re-tapping the hole out. I am not sure yet.

Thanks again so much, Mike, for your help and encouragement.

[Rolling_X_6]

You didn't buy a lemon,you bought a severely abused and neglected machine.Its really unfortunate, no question.You noticed the problems unloading but obviously not before purchase.One reason why I am not comfortable with sight-unseen purchases.Any of the problems mentioned can be fixed of course but this all costs money. Best of luck with your project.You will know your machine inside out when everything is in good working order and will get a lot of enjoyment from it.These machines are about as much fun as anything out there but must have a maintenance schedule followed strictly,a downside of these over other recreational machines out there and even quads need maintenance too.

Yeah . . . it is more than a little embarrassing that I did not notice it before I bought it . . . but, actually I bought it through eBay and had already paid for it through PayPal. I still think I could have gotten out of it, but I did not realize that there was anything wrong with it, as the previous owner loaded for me onto my trailer. He commented that the noises I was hearing were normal. And, it was not until I got home and was driving it myself that I realized that something was messed up.

That sounds pretty lame of me . . . but, I am NOT experienced with these machines AT ALL. This was the first time I was ever seeing a MAX IV in person in my life.

[lewis]

Try using a left hand drill bit on it when you drill the bolt out. As you drill it out, it tries to back the bolt out also. Finally it will back out. If the threads come out that is still OK, not good but fixable. Order a keen coil for it. Which is a brand name for a heli-coil kit and it can be bought through Mcmaster-carr. It sound like maintenance was a foreign word to the owner, but as Mike said, a little sweat and patience and a few $$$$ and you will have a fine machine.

Wish you luck on the machine.

[jerseybigfoot]

Mike--

I know what you mean . . . it is NOT that big of a deal . . . just a kick in the "nuts and bolt."

I already DID rip the engine out. I already did rip the T-20 out. I already did straighten out the frame. I already did order all of the parts I need, so far: 530 o-ring chain, two idler sprocket bearings, left-rear double sprocket, and some other maintenance items. Plus, I already did try to get the one bolt out using an "easy-out." But, it would not budge. And, you do NOT want to twist off an easy-out in a bolt, or you ARE done for . . . because there is no drilling those out. At this point, I am considering just drilling out the broken off bolt and then re-tapping the hole out. I am not sure yet.

Thanks again so much, Mike, for your help and encouragement.

I Just drilled out and helicoiled 2 holes in George's T-20 The kit comes complete with the drill tap and insert tool. real easy to use. Drilling out the old broken bolts wasnt too bad. Just take your time locating the bolt center and start with a very small drill to start the pilot hole.

[B.A.]

sheared off

If the bolt is sheared off flush weld a nut to the bolt through the nut hole and wrench it out.

[Eldon]

It is a lot easier to buy after we know the machine but myself like you and others usually are buying our first machine and by the time we know what to look for it is after the purchase.I never even heard tell of Max until about a year and a half ago,but when I did I bought one within 30 days.
I think the Max amphibians are the ultimate in engineering and design within an ordinary persons budget.The troubles you are having now will turn to your great advantage in maintenance and repair knowledge in the years to come.Once you start running it and having a ball you will certainly laugh about these minor glitches and by the sounds of things you have the troubles on the run!. (Regarding the broken bolt..I broke off an extractor once.......LOL don't do it!)

[lewis]

What to look for Thread

Last month a idea came to my head to start a "How to or What to look for Thread" All members who have machines will put in information into this thread. Members and non-member upon reading this will have a more educated idea of what to look for in a used machine. I really hate to hear when someone gets taken to the cleaners, we want people to enjoy their machines and their experience with the AATV world. Not become frustrated and give up.

Thoughts on this? You guys tell me. Would anyone feel that people would use it? This may prevent people from paying to much for a poorly kept machine. Members on this site are Super knowledgeable of the different types of machines and may save a member or potential member a lot of money when buying a machine.

I'm not trying to hijack this thread, i thought this would be a pretty good place to throw this out for opinions.

Lewis

[Joe M]

I think it's a good Idea, Lewis. Having a bad experience, when venturing in to something new, can really turn you off. Especially in this hobby! And, especially with the older machines! So, if we all can point a newbie in the right direction; it's good for the hobby/sport.

[micmac]

That sounds pretty lame of me . . . but, I am NOT experienced with these machines AT ALL. This was the first time I was ever seeing a MAX IV in person in my life.

I had the same experience when I bought mine although it was older and I didn't pay top dollar. I do know where your coming from though. It's disappointing to get a machine home and immediately have to work on it. I like Don's Philosophy: Everything is an assumed basket case. Then your always pleasantly surprised when something works

OK time to make lemon-aid from those lemons! Look at it this way a 2000 would need new chains even if the machine was babied. The sprocket stripping teeth can happen in a nano second on rough terrain. Everything else that is steel can be easily replaced.

After this, you'll have excellent understanding of the mechanical workings on the machine and if you ever have issues you'll know you to fix it no problem.

The good folks on this board are always eager to help and there is a HUGE knowledge base in the archives so search any issues you might have and there is most likely an answer on here. Oh and by the way congrats on the new machine and post up some pictures!

Mike

[birddog1148]

If the bolt is sheared off flush weld a nut to the bolt through the nut hole and wrench it out.

That works, I do it on VW Bug heads to get broken exhaust studs out.

[MarshallEpp]

what to look for thread

I think this is a great idea.I was lucky enough to run into don on here and bought my first machine from him. and he even helped me make a few changes.but if it where not for don who knows what i would have ended up with. But good luck with your max iv keep the faith and come here and ask questions often,and i am sure you will get through this and have a great machine.