Help my Mudd-Ox sunk!

[kmac]

Would I recommend it or buy another one?
I feel that because I know more about the ox, all I need to do is to order the basics and get the accessories elsewhere. I feel that (although I am not sure), that is the best way to get everything when you need it. So if it works well, I am inclined to look into getting another one (I might bite my tongue later). But it is early days, and it has gone from looking like a glorified Lego toy to a real machine.

[kmac]

Adaptability and performance: B+

Adaptability and performance: B+
I am sure with no kit on the thing will float, but the floats that I put on are a God send. But as some of you have indicated, there is a draw back. On our first outing, we got stuck in little muddy hole -- too deep to get traction, and too muddy to use the outboard. I had to use what little off-roading skills I had to get out. But essentially we had to back up out of the hole. The floats, hampered us, as at one particular time we managed to get to edge of the hole, but the ground was too high and the floats where butting against the edge of the hole and this prevented us from gaining traction and climbing out. The floats were ahead of the tracks so that would hit ground first. We chose to back up because the floats were behind the tracks at the back of the ox, so the tracks would hit solid ground first. So we might adjust it. However, there is an advantage to having the longer floats at the front. I guess when I finally get the front float from Matt it shouldn’t matter, but when we hit the edge of a pool of water with a steep angle, the ox plunged down into the water and started to take on water, but then it popped back up. But again we had a lot of weight: we had the tracks, the outboard, two 220 pound hulking males, a full tank of fuel for the ox, a 5 gallon jerry can with diesel fuel, a full 5 gallon gasoline tank for the outboard, and the aluminium rails. So when we get the front floats, hopefully we can push the sides float back..but we might have a problem with the front float hitting the water.
But we were both skittish, and I guess that will change as we gain more experience with the Ox.

I couldn’t help think how the hydratrek would have performed. Because while we were stuck in the muddy water, I though that using the propellers and the tracks of the hydratrek would mean we would be out in a jiffy. But for now -- and I am saying this having not ever using the Adair tracks -- I have to say the rubber tracks seem to perform really well..No matter how awful the water was or how soft the ground was, they seem to get us out and moving (well…eventually when we fell into the hole). But it was the tracks that were moving us. So cannot use tracks that cannot swim. Plus turning the Ox in mud or sand with the tracks was not a problem. I am not going to use them on hard surfaces, so right now it doesn’t matter if they can turn well on these surfaces or not.

Also the float has opened the door for the use of larger outboards. I am considering going for a 25 hp high thrust motor, or try to do a little more homework on the yamaha jet drive outboards. But anything that can handle the rough stuff and can be operated from the cab is on the list.

So that’s it. I have a few stuff waiting to be delivered. The delay has worked out for me, as I actually get to test things and see what works, and I’ve been able to rethink the whole idea of using the paltry 9.9 hp. I guess this is where the Mudd-ox seems ok. With the floats, I can throw on a big outboard and make a splash.

[azz7772]

thanx for the review that was a good read.

[LarryW]

Good read! Thanks for taking the time to do that.

[mudbug3]

Kmac

Giving a grade to all of the things that you experienced since owning a Mudd-Ox was exellent! A grading system like this will be quite helpful for those people who have been thinking about buying a Mudd-Ox. Matt was very late in shipping the parts that he originally promised me, but, I eventually got all of the parts that he promised me, just like he promised them.

If you're in a really bad spot with tracks and you find it extremely hard to change directions, this is a trick that you might want to try:

Pull up and then back up while making a very slight direction change ,and in the way that you want to go. As you pull up make a very slight direction change again. Continue repeating this process as you drive forward and backwards. By doing this I have been able to make the Mudd-Ox that I used to own turn around in extremely tight places. This is where a Hydrostatic machine shines.

[Noel Woods]

Kmac: Thank you for the status updates. The grading system you assigned makes perfect sense to me. Most manufacturers request feedback from their customers, and I think this has been clearly stated in the thread. I am certainly happy that most of your problems are behind you at this point.
I sincerely hope the customer service issues get fixed with Mudd Ox. I think its a very good off-road machine, and the hydraulic drive is the main advantage over the competition, at the moment. Maybe with a few improvements in flotaion, balance, free-board, etc., it could evolve into the machine to beat.
Please keep us posted on the status of your machines, and how the eco-tourism business goes.

[locolouie]

I'm new to this butI had a chance to ride in a mudd-ox this weekend with Matt, and was totally amazed with its preformance, the ability of the machine to go places it did was awesome ,it was nasty muddy slick ,and the hills it climbed and desended with out spinning the tires losing traction was something in itself. I think it put alot of machines to shame but everyone uses them in different ways so it preference, myself I like to trail ride and have no need for speed and it can carry the family and gear to camp out on the trails, if things work out for me I will be a mudd-ox owner one day, thanks Matt for the ride

[kmac]

Short term update from the guy with the sunken ox...

Just a quick update and some questions as well. We (my research student and I) have been using one of the two oxs we purchased from Matt. As some of you know, we rigged one with a 70 hp yamaha outboard. This was set up sept./October 2012. Five days after it was set up, the 70 hp was stolen, so I had to use the 25 hp instead. I’ve posted pictures of the ox on the river. It floats well with the set up, but with the 25 hp (high thrust), it takes us 1.5 hrs to 2 hrs to access our sites, compared with 30 - 45 mins for a 14 foot jon boat with a 4 hp two stroker. I hope to replace the stolen outboard with a 60 hp evinrude (it weighs the same as the 25 hp), and I can purchase a 2010 model (brand new) for much less than the 70 or 50 hp yamaha.
I am usually mindful that the ox is one structural failure away from sinking to the bottom. So we usually do our checks before taking it on the river. Also I’ve gotten over the not-for-the-faint-of-heart entry into the water from the riverbank and from the river on to the bank. We have to find a tree close to the bank to winch the atv out of the water in most cases to climb out of the water.
But I can’t say we’ve operated the unit with reckless abandon. The sinking and becoming stuck all too easily muted that attitude. The pullpal works if we can get a good grip. But most of our sites are too soft for the ox. So driving takes some amount of planning (one person scouts for places to drive).
While we have not had any serious mechanical failure, there have been some niggles that need to be constantly straightened out.
We hear the knock (discussed on the forum) while turning. Also some rods that aid with the steering keep coming loose (see next post). So I’m wondering if I should screw them in with some cement like substance. But any hard turns, they come loose and we have to keep screwing them back in.
Also our hand break stopped working (see next post), so this will have to be repaired.
We have disabled both the neutral and hand brake not-starting feature (if you can call it that). We’ve found that when we get stuck, depending on the severity, water can enter and kill the capacitor (?)/fuse that controls the handbrake and the neutral feature. Also when on the river, the atv can build up a wall of water in front which ocmes in through the headlights and where he winch is attached (we’ve tried to seal these with silicone but it doesn’t stop it entirely). So even if the fuse for these blow and the Ox doesn’t start now, we know it’s some other electrical problem. Also we wrap all of the fuses/capacitors under the dash in plastic bags so that these aren’t affected if the atv floods again (see pics).

So has it been worth it? Well we aren’t really confident when we are using the Ox. We are always wondering what will go wrong next. The tracks came off while trying to negotiate a tight turn, the little niggles are persistent, and we've only been out once with the ox and not become stuck. We have decided not to venture too far from water and we take our jon boat with us just in case something goes wrong.
We have accessed some previously inaccessible sites, although we have since walked to the sites through the peat marsh. But as we found out, it can be a difficult walk (my student and I almost had a heat stroke while refitting the tracks in midday heat, so we weren’t aware how hot it can get in the open when we are not using the ox, and he almost passed while walking through the peat at 5 in the afternoon!) and the mudd-ox made light work of it. Most significantly, where we are working is like a weed (marijuana) factory, and we had to use the ox to negotiate the weed beds. Also to build the beds, trenches are dug around an area that is piled high (no pun intended) with peat, and the weed is planted on top. So old beds are surrounded by these bottomless trenches. The ox makes light work of them (they are narrow enough for it to cross them and climb up and over the weed bed). But when we are walking through the marsh we can’t see them, and we have fallen in them while walking. Also if we try to jump over them, we have a narrow strip to aim for. So in that regard the Ox has helped us out.
The really heavy lifting starts in a couple of weeks, when we have to use the ox to cut some invasive plants, and we have to conduct a habitat wide survey with the ox. So I’ll let you know how it performs at that time..

Kmac

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[kmac]

More pics and problems

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[MaxRules]

Very interesting use and set up you have on that Ox. It sounds like you are navagating some difficult terrain after your lengthy water journey. I think all that weight you added in pontoons for better floatation in the water is preventing you from being very capable on land. Soft ground and climbing out of banks require the vehicle to be as light as possible. I think you are probably using the Ox in several ways it was never designed for and that thinking is probably confirmed by the huge pontoons and outboard hanging off of it. If a vehicle doesn't fit the user for 100% of his needs, I usually take the time to recommend one that will. In this situation, I don't think any amphib is suited for the need or could do better than the Ox.

[rodp]

What do you and your team actually do over there, what's your job definition / mission?

[Buzz]

It's too bad, you couldn't run dually's and a set of dually-tracks like Tim's Fat-Cat tracks. I'm sure a set could be made to fit over your 25" tires too. Maybe you already have more tires and dually-adapters? This way you could even remove your outriggers and should have plenty of buoyancy. It would make your p.s.i. on ground much lighter too with nominal increase in wheelbase. Significantly less actually if the outriggers were removed. Hindsight I guess. That would be a great set-up for your application. The ox will do the job very well if it's set up correctly.

[MaxRules]

It's too bad, you couldn't run dually's and a set of dually-tracks like Tim's Fat-Cat tracks. I'm sure a set could be made to fit over your 25" tires too. Maybe you already have more tires and dually-adapters? This way you could even remove your outriggers and should have plenty of buoyancy. It would make your p.s.i. on ground much lighter too with nominal increase in wheelbase. Significantly less actually if the outriggers were removed. Hindsight I guess. That would be a great set-up for your application. The ox will do the job very well if it's set up correctly.

That's a great idea. Far more reasonable than those pontoons and great traction for coming out of steep banks.

[amphibious drew]

Some red lock tight on that bolt that keeps loosening up should help you out there. Your Ox was sunk in salt water, so you may want to consider replacing your wiring harness. Its actually amazing you have not had or gremlins in your system considering the hurricane incident. As for water plowing up the headlights, I believe this happens when you have achieved maximum hull speed and are providing additional thrust then whats necessary. None of these machines are speed boats or jet ski's. They simply make water and land passage possible at a reasonable rate of speed. I don't believe a more powerful engine will get you going any faster, but maybe one of these really smart engineer guys will chime in on that.

[kmac]

Thanks drew..not looking for speed per say just would like to go a bit fast than 1- 2 mph..trimming up the outboard reduces the water coming up on the headlights. I got up to 5 mph with the 70 hp, and it was reasonable, so looking for that..This isn't the ox that sank. But we changed out all the harnesses for it ages ago..